Peter Boyles Radio Show 630KHOW - Thursday, August 31, 2006
http://www.khow.com/pages/shows-boyles.html
Guest: John Stephen Gigax of Bloomington, Indiana, who was falsely targeted by Colorado University Professor Michael Tracey in his June 15, 2004 UK Documentary titled, ""Who Killed The Pageant Queen - The Prime Suspect" in the JonBenet Ramsey Murder case. In addition, Michael Tracey also targeted Gigax in the same Documentary as the accomplis and then the killer of Michael Helgoth, and falsely targeted in attempted rape of a young girl in September 1997 and in a mass of Boulder Burglaries. Featured in Tracey's documentary to support the "prime suspect" accusations were Ramsey Investigators, Ollie Gray and John San Augustin. John Kenady and another man later identified as James Johnson, both of Boulder, Colorado was also featured to support Tracey's "Prime Suspect."
Guest: Tony Ortega of the New Times in Palm Beach
http://www.newtimesbpb.com/2006-08-17/news/jonbenet-flimsy/
Guest: Tricia Griffith (www.forumsforjustice.org)
Peter Boyles Radio Show 630KHOW - Thursday, August 31, 2006
Transcribed by ACandyRose
http://www.acandyrose.com/20060831PB-GigaxInterview.htm
INTERVIEW WITH JOHN STEPHEN GIGAX
BOYLES: Mr. Gigax, Good morning and welcome to Denver and KHOW, you're live on the air.
GIGAX: Yeah, Good morning
BOYLES: Good morning to you
BOYLES: Just begin if you would and talk about your life and give us a bio of yourself and then we will move on to you ending up in a documentary film two years ago so Mr. Gigax it's all yours so if you wish to speak to the audience please do.
GIGAX: Yeah, well ah, I use to live out in Colorado and a, I lived out there for about fifteen years in Boulder and worked some remodeling work and odds and end jobs and stuff like that. I ended up leaving Colorado in September, late September or early October of 1996. I came back to my original state I was from, where I'd grown up, which is Indiana, and a, rented a house back here in Indiana. And that's when the things started happening in about, oh it was in September of I believe 2004 I started receiving a bunch of mysterious e-mails. Some of them were saying like did you know that you're being aimed as a prime suspect in a documentary on the murder of JonBenet. And of course that caught me completely off guard, I had no clue what was going on, and from there it just got worse and that's what we're going to talk about today.
BOYLES: May I ask how old you are?
GIGAX: I'm 51
BOYLES: Alright. Did you live in Boulder or did you live in Denver? If I'm out of line here anytime just say I am. Did you live in Boulder or Denver?
GIGAX: I lived in Boulder.
BOYLES: What did you do when you lived in Boulder?
GIGAX: I did some remodeling work for a gentlemen there that lived in Boulder, he owned quite a bit of properties, rental properties for the students at the university and that kind of stuff. And I also restored some old automobiles, fifties and sixties classics in my garage on the side and did some freelance remodeling, that kind of thing.
BOYLES: And that's September when you moved back to Indiana, why did you move back to Indiana?
GIGAX: Well, I'd gotten in a scrape out there defending my property and room-mate from a fight that broke out on New Years Eve night in my home.
BOYLES: And that was New Years of '95? or '94?
GIGAX: '95 But anyways I ended up getting into some trouble over that because I over reacted to the situation and I was charged with menacing with a deadly weapon and I went to court and took a plea bargain from the judge and I was sentenced to some house arrest, with the ankle bracelet and four years probation
BOYLES: I admire you because I know about what happen to you up there and you're giving it up and that's a sign of a man who wants the truth out.
GIGAX: Right, well I definitely do and that's why I'm talking to you and that's why I talked to at Large, Geraldo, the other day and I would just like to see some justice prevail here.
BOYLES: Right, now who was and what was your relationship to Michael Helgoth?
GIGAX: Michael Helgoth was an acquaintance, I met him through a mutual friend who lived in the same mobile home park that I did, John Kenady who was also in the documentary speaking out against me.
BOYLES: Yeah, that's right
GIGAX: Well, he knew Michael, actually all the Helgoths. About a quarter mile down the street from the mobile home park there was a junk yard and it was owned by the Helgoths, Michael's uncle Douglas and I don't remember the other gentlemen's name but Michael worked there with them at the junkyard and as I said earlier I did do some automotive restoration work on the side and would pick up parts from that junkyard quite often. And John Kenady was also the mechanical type guy who lived two trailers up from me and that's how I ended up started going down there and met Michael which was through John Kenady. And me and Michael, we got along okay, we didn't have like a social life, it was usually an 8-5 if I went down to the junkyard and saw him to go get some parts and 'hey how ya doing' and he had a hot rod that he raced at Denver Mile High so it was kind of like an acquaintanceship thing. He was pretty private type of person. I didn't know much about his personal life outside of the junkyard. That kind of thing so basically it was a limited type aquaintenceship.
BOYLES: What happened to Michael?
GIGAX: Well, when I was back, after I moved back there in Indiana in September or October, I don't have the exact date, I know it was toward the end of September or the beginning of October of '96. I was living my life and a of course I saw the news release of the JonBenet murder in Boulder. I was in Bloomington Indiana in a home that I was renting with two other room-mates. We were sitting there watching TV that evening when it broke and one of my whose Richard Hill who is from Boulder, he came back with me to Indiana from Boulder who helped me drive some of the vehicles. I had a big rental truck pulling the trailer, the jeep and my '55 Chevy pickup truck pulling a trailer. So he drove the pickup truck and we caravanned out here together. I'm sorry I'm losing my train of thought.
BOYLES: The end of Michael Helgoth's life because this is important here
GIGAX: Okay, Oh yeah, that's right, right, well about a month in well, he committed suicide in February 14th which was Valentines day
BOYLES: This was the February 14th after the little girls body was found
GIGAX: Yes of '97 right
BOYLES: No '96, it was Christmas night, 19, Christmas night, the night of the 26th, 25th, 26th, 1996
GIGAX: Was JonBenet's murder.
BOYLES: When did Helgoth, when did he die?
GIGAX: Michael, according to what I've been told committed suicide on February 14, 1997.
BOYLES: Right so this is two months later, give or take.
GIGAX: Two months later. Well, as I told you I had watched the news release of the JonBenet murder over my TV set in Bloomington with my room-mates. Well a couple months later I received a call from James Johnson.
BOYLES: Tell the people who James Johnson is.
GIGAX: Who is also another one of the persons in the documentary aiming accusations against me. He, when I left Boulder, him and I were friends. We were the longest standing friendship that I had in Boulder. He was the first person I met and we continued to have a friendship relationship all the way and on up through until the day I left. But he called me, and 'Steve, I just wanted you to know that Michael Helgoth committed suicide, I didn't know if you were going to be able to attend the funeral or what but I thought you should know because you did know him.' I told him well I'm not going to be able to go out there and do that but I appreciated his call and letting me know everything so.
BOYLES: Then what happened follow that. Did you follow the Ramsey case at all?
GIGAX: No not really other than what I saw on TV, the original release, press release of the murder and of course when I received the call about Michael committing suicide I had no inkling of any type of connection that was going to be construed about that and I just basically went on my daily life, I mean nothing seemed out of place at that time, you know.
BOYLES: I'm sure you've seen the documentary, I'm guessing you seen the documentary that fingers you as the killer or one of the killers.
GIGAX: Yes I have
BOYLES: So you know in the doc they say, this is the claim, there's voice over who I think is the third narrator for the piece I should say and there's different voices in the piece but the narrators says three months after the murder, I'll read this to you. "After the murder of JonBenet Ramsey, the Boulder police were told this man, [it doesn't say who told the police that, but this is why it starts to get interesting,] that Michael Helgoth might have been involved. They ignored the information but a new team of detectives were appointed last year and they have taken it seriously, they had, they discovered, [I don't know where there is any prove of this that Helgoth had an infatuation with young girls.] A girlfriend said he actually collected Barbie dolls. She eventually had to take out a restraining order on him to protect her daughter. She had come home unexpectedly one evening and found her on his bed, he was in bed naked and he said he couldn't trust himself with her daughter." Then they go to Ollie Gray and Ollie Gray turns out later, they don't mention this but Ollie Gray is on the payroll, he's the guy, he's one of the guys that's working in Lou Smit's agency we find out.
GIGAX: Right
BOYLES: Right. He is quoted as saying we're looking for the potential pedophile, this has all the characteristic of sexual deviation, the age bracket of the child was within two years of the investigation meaning the Ramsey case. And they go from there but they start making these statements against Michael Helgoth.
GIGAX: Right
BOYLES: Do you know of any of that to ever occurred? Finding him nude in the bed and the rest of this stuff? Collecting Barbie dolls?
GIGAX: No, no, I never, he lived there at the junkyard in a bedroom with his Uncle in a house that his Uncle and Aunt lived in.
BOYLES: Did you ever see anything like that?
GIGAX: I had never been inside the house. Period. I've never seen any bizarre behavior from Michael. He's quiet, he seemed polite, he seemed like a nice guy, well brought up, never did he exhibit any type of weird pedophile, anything type behavior. He was into car racing. He worked hard everyday and like I say he was just a quiet guy. Just seemed real nice. He did like his guns. He did shoot guns but I never saw him do anything threatening with a gun, target practice stuff out in the back of the junkyard. That's about it.
BOYLES: Eighteen after the hour, you’re listening to John Stephen Gigax with Peter Boyles on KHOW, named by Michael Tracey two years ago as the unfound suspect in the murder of JonBenet Ramsey. So, but there was, so then a DNA test is done and there's no way Helgoth's DNA and either found under her finger prints or fingernails which we now know is been, is contaminated anyhow or the underwear DNA. Helgoth is excluded from that so.
GIGAX: That's what I've heard
BOYLES: Absolutely, I did some work on this, so he's out of the picture
GIGAX: Right
BOYLES: So they must then have a co intruder killer and that's when you come up.
GIGAX: Yes
BOYLES: Alright I'm going to put you on hold and we'll take a break here and we'll come back with you. He's in Indiana, his name is John Stephen Gigax and this is why the story is important because precisely what was done to John Mark Karr, by the same man was done to him. Eighteen after the hour KHOW radio.
(STATION BREAK)
BOYLES: In the morning the end of August John Stephen Gigax who was blamed two years ago by John, Michael Tracey as the suspect, as the, I guess as the accomplis murder.
GIGAX: The prime suspect.
BOYLES: Yeah, the prime suspect, that's what you were called. You know from the film, you've seen the film, nine months, you're blamed for a rape in this film as well, correct?
GIGAX: I don't recall that part of it but I did hear something about Dance West
BOYLES: Nine months after
GIGAX: An intruder in a little girls bedroom
BOYLES: Right
GIGAX: Chased off by the parents. I did hear that was also suppose a connection of some sort with JOnBenet. I didn't know that (Unclear)
BOYLES: When I said rape.... attempted rape, I apologize, attempted rape nine months after you had left.
GIGAX: Right
BOYLES: Let me come to how you think you got pulled into this and by the way thank God there were people in Great Britain because this film aired only in Great Britain
GIGAX: Yes and he was trying to get it released in the United States after it had been released over there
BOYLES: By the way it's an important question, did you ever spoken to Michael Tracey?
GIGAX: No I haven't
BOYLES: On June, I have my exact dates here, I want to make sure what I'm talking about. Michael Tracey's documentary, the third one titled "Who killed the pageant queen" dash prime suspect, we're talking to that prime suspect, John Stephen Gigax was aired in the UK on ITV1 at 9 in the evening on Tuesday the 15 of June 2004. This is while he's already speaking by Internet I suspect to John Mark Karr. He calls you, they call you Mr. X as the prime suspect.
GIGAX: Yes, I believe so, both I think, Mr. X, I've seen and heard that and the prime suspect
BOYLES: Now I want to tell people how people, how the true investigators find out that it is this man being name and by, so, actually I want to make it your story so there's a frame where they hold up what they claim to be a police report, correct?
GIGAX: Yes, it was a menecing with a deadly weapon charge that I just spoke about earlier in the show where a fight broke out in my mobile home and my room-mate was being injured and I interviewed and got a little bit carried away and pin pricked a guy on his chest with a knife and he reached his hand up and grabbed the knife blade and when I pulled it back it cut his hand but I was just trying to get him out the door away from my room-mate so I could tend to my room-mate who ended up actually having an amputated finger from the incident from the guy I was trying to protect him from. If you were to get a hold of the court room transcripts the prosecutor spoke to the judge on my behalf actually more so than my own lawyer had to talk. He told, the prosecutor told the judge that I was so close to making my day thing that I probably shouldn't even be in the court room. But because we were all drunk, it was New Years Eve night, basically one persons testimony cancels out another so all were inadmissable so basically it was my word against the injured parties word and that was it.
BOYLES: There's really, it's called capturing a frame so that frame that's showing this, the true identity of the murderer that's been blacked out
GIGAX: Right, they had, on the documentary they had showed the police report or the arrest report or whatever it was, they blacked out my name and address but they left the file, case number in the upper right hand corner of the page, they left that visible
BOYLES: And that doc, the number was 96CR111 and 96F75. It was readable either as 96F75 or 96F15. These documents were discovered and they referred to you, John Stephen Gigax, and your birth dates there and corresponds with the birth date shown on the screen in Michael Tracey's film. The summary of this is, in this film John Stephen Gigax by Michael Tracey is involved in a serious of midnight burglaries in Boulder, the murder of JonBenet Ramsey, the death of Michael Helgoth and the sexual assault, your blame for an attempted rape on the Dance West victim.
GIGAX: Right
BOYLES: Does that pretty much sum up what was said about you in that documentary?
GIGAX: Yeah, that pretty much sums it up
BOYLES: So you
GIGAX: Blame all this terrible stuff on me
BOYLES: On you
BOYLES: And again, you'd never spoke with anybody, not with Tracey and by the way the two investigators name, John San Augustin was one of them and the other, I got so many notes I apologize, Jon San Aristide was one of the people and we'll go on to talk more about his role in all of this and how they all trace back to Lou Smit. I'll get the other name here in a minute, I apologize but what is important now is you find out you've been named and we're going to take a pause here and we're going to talk about what you did when you found out that Michael Tracey had named you. Our guest is in Indiana, John Stephen Gigax. This is why I have been trying to get somebody other than this idiot radio show we're involved with to look at this guy, we found him, you can talk to him, you can see the crockumentury, you can see exactly what's been done to this guy was two years later to John Mark Karr.
(STATION BREAK)
BOYLES: On the line with us is John Stephen Gigax who was fingered by Michael Tracey in June of 04 in "Who Killed The Pageant Queen" that aired in Great Britain. This is not only filled with errors but also implicates this man, okay so how do you find out, I mean I heard the story but John tell us how you found out that you had been fingered.
GIGAX: It was all through e-mail. I'd just came back from a camping trip down in the Southern part of Indiana and when I got home I checked my e-mail and there were like six or eight e-mails, boom boom boom, from people I didn't have a clue who they were or what was going on and they were mentioning 'did you know you've been fingered as the prime suspect in the JonBenet Ramsey case.' Stuff like that.
BOYLES: What did you then do?
GIGAX: I freaked out ! It was like WHAT, what is going on here, you know, it totally floored me especially since I knew I was here in Indiana. I was like, how can someone do something like that?
BOYLES: hey did it again too so.
GIGAX: Right, so then one of them was from some web site, amateur sleuth type people and I guess they were in the cahoots with Michael Tracey side of it were they wanted me to meet with that Lou Smit, everybody, Ollie Gray and give DNA.
BOYLES: John, let me ask you something important. Did this group ask you to meet with Michael Tracey?
GIGAX: They said they could set it up for me to meet with Michael Tracey.
BOYLES: My God, so am I to understand they... why am I not surprised.
GIGAX: Then I didn't know who these people were from Adam, I mean I didn't know if they were wacko or if it was true, you know or what kind of angle they were coming at me from so basically, and then I started talking to Tricia Griffith. And it was very obvious that she was from a little bit different camp than the rest of these people who had been e-mailing me and I started contacting her
BOYLES: Michael Tracey makes the documentary and they want you to met with Lou Smit, give blood and met with Michael Tracey.
GIGAX: Yeah.
BOYLES: You called and my understanding through the help of Tricia you got the phone number for Tom Bennett who was at this press conference by the way the other day.
GIGAX: Yes, Tom Bennett was the District Attorney in Boulder Colorado at the time
BOYLES: No, he was a representative of the DA, he's not the DA.
GIGAX: Okay, well he's in the DA's office
BOYLES: That's right and did you call Mr. Bennett?
GIGAX: I called Mr. Bennett immediately.
BOYLES: And did he...
GIGAX: Spoke with him
BOYLES: You go ahead, I'm sorry
GIGAX: I spoke with him on the phone for probably a good forty five minutes. We talked about why I was calling him, about the documentary that was naming me as a suspect, we, he asked if I had a problem doing an interview with him and I said no. He asked me some questions.
BOYLES: Did he act like he knew who you were?
GIGAX: No, I don't think he did at first.
BOYLES: Did he ask you anything at all about Michael Tracey?
GIGAX: No
BOYLES: Did he ask you, did Bennett mention anything at all about Michael Tracey?
GIGAX: No he didn't
BOYLES: And he doesn't ask you about Michael Tracey, doesn't mention Michael Tracey but asks if he can interview you. Does he say he knows about you?
GIGAX: No
BOYLES: So you in essence
GIGAX: He didn't come across as though he'd heard about the documentary or anything. I explained it all to him.
BOYLES: Okay.
GIGAX: Told him I was being named as a prime suspect in a documentary and that I needed to find out what's going on and I wasn't dealing with people I didn't know and I wanted to deal with someone who was a real person, who had real authority in the matter
BOYLES: How did the conversation go and how would you describe and how did Bennett treat you?
GIGAX: Well he basically kind of laughed about it and said it sounds like it's a bunch of crap and he asked if I had a problem with doing an interview where he'd ask me some questions, he said what kind of movies do you like and have you ever owned a stun gun, you know bla bla bla. About fifteen, twenty minutes of that kind of stuff. I told him about receipts that I had, if he would like me to send those, they were signed credit card purchases from Sears in Bloomington and Colombus all through the whole time. I have signed credit card receipts that I sent him for 12/22/96 purchase Sears Bloomington, Indiana and 12/28/96 purchase Bloomington Indiana and also another one that was on 2/14/97 which was the day Michael Helgoth committed suicide so I did copy those and sent those all to him. He told me on the phone that I was not a suspect nor had I ever been as suspect.
BOYLES: Was that the end of it after that?
GIGAX: Yes, that was it.
BOYLES: Let me ask you, sorry, go ahead.
GIGAX: He had my phone number, I told him if he needed anything else from me to feel free to call anytime.
BOYLES: So in essence Bennett says Gig you are not or never have been a suspect. Nor were they looking for you.
GIGAX: Correct, he said they're not looking for me. They never were, I'm not a suspect, never was and I told, after I spoke with him, I got back to Tricia and I told her what he said and I guess she had actually called him and he confirmed that to her.
BOYLES: Have you ever thought, John Stephen Gigax, have you ever thought about suing BBC and Michael Tracey for airing this?
GIGAX: All the time. You know I spent hundreds of hours on the phone, calling bar associations, legal councils, everything I could possibly do including with Tricia's resources to help me. To find a lawyer to represent me in this matter to seek justice over Michael Tracey for his doing this to me and I could not find one single person to help me.
BOYLES: See back then nobody knew about John Mark Karr and it seems you were living in a parallel universe, Tracey's documentary was fingering you, I think my choice of words, Michael Tracey was grooming this next guy John Mark Karr but I think, now things have changed. We know how to find you in terms of, and I'll share you with any, Rocky Mountain, Post, 2,4,7,9 or any Fox person who wishes to speak with John Gigax but I think things may have changed now, you may be able to find somebody because you got the University of Colorado where he does his work, you have the BBC that aired it, you have Michael Tracey himself. My guess is we could find, pretty good attorney that would take your case now particularly in terms of what was done to John Mark Karr. You know his, the word is, I don't know this for a fact that his family has hard lawyers and they're suing the Boulder DA for false arrest and false imprisonment, I don't know if you knew that.
GIGAX: I didn't know that, no
BOYLES: That's some of the rumors
GIGAX: More power
BOYLES: Absolutely. I think what I'd like to do here because I know some other things are going on as well is to put you on hold and we'll speak a little bit to Greg and I think and we're gong to pursue this tomorrow with a replay. I think John we can find you a lawyer who would at least go for a settlement from Tracey for having done this to you as well as....
GIGAX: Right
BOYLES: Other people who were never identified who turn out to be Ollie Gray and SanAugstine and they turn out to be in the, in the working with Lou Smit and Lou Smit of course is working with the Ramsey family and Lou has been hired by this current DA and I really think somebody would probably like to settle with you before this would go, I'm not a lawyer, what the hell do I know, I shouldn't even be saying that but let me if I could put you on hold and you'll speak with Greg and I think and let's see.... here's one more final question, have you heard from the Rocky Mountain News, Denver Post, Channels 2,4,7,9 or Fox here locally Fox31?
GIGAX: No
BOYLES: Okay, yes sur you want to say anything that I missed?
GIGAX: I do have kind of a page of some stuff I wrote down. Will we have time to address that?
BOYLES: I was going to end it here but I'm going to let you do it. We'll put you on hold, take one more pause, we'll come back and you can read, John, you can read whatever you wish, okay?
(STATION BREAK)
BOYLES: Do we have a lawyer out there, there's plenty of lawyers looking at this. Hang on 8:45 Peter Boyles and I've been sued, I don't like law suits, I don't like violence, I don't like law suits but I'd sure like to see one filed here. Without a doubt this is one of the most important things we've done in quite a while. It's Thursday morning and our guest on the line in Indiana is John Stephen Gigax and Mr. Gigax, you wanted to read and say some things in general to the audience if you would, it's yours.
GIGAX: Thank you, I would just like to say I'd like to see Michael Tracey held accountable for what he's done to me and others. Also Michael Tracey is a Journalism Professor at the Colorado University which is one of our nations most respected universities and I just think the Cu facility, students, alumni and those donating money in grants to the Colorado university really want their university to be associated with this professor that works this way. Do the parents of students attending CU for journalism degrees really want a man like Michael Tracey teaching their children? I ask anyone hearing this show to think what this would do to your life. Imagine having your family, friends and co workers having to live this nightmare. Then understand that next week it could be you in Michael Tracey's sights. This man needs to be stopped before he ruins another life. I'm asking the public for help. If this upsets you please write to Colorado University Board of Regents and voice your opinions to them. I would like to see Michael Tracey removed from his teaching position at Colorado University and issue a public apology for his wrongful accusations leveled against myself and others. This man has no business teaching in a university period. And that's just what I wanted to say.
BOYLES: Here's what I'm going to try and do. That's John Stephen Gigax blamed by Michael Tracey two years ago in a BBC documentary as the prime suspect Mr X in the Ramsey murder. Tomorrow we know some Regents and we're gong to bring some regents on this show tomorrow and we're gong to play them or maybe even have you back, you're right
GIGAX: Okay
BOYLES: Would you do that with us sir?
GIGAX: Yes, I'd be more than happy to.
BOYLES: Okay I'm going to put you on hold. John Gigax is on hold, I can't say it any better than that. If you would Greg, talk to him. I want to bring on Tricia Griffith and Tony Ortega who really are the prime movers in this. Anthony of course has gotten no acclaim and the Denver Press can't find him. He's in of course the Brower Palm Beach New Times and Tricia Griffith.
TONY ORTEGA (New Times in Palm Beach): Tricia did the hard work here and I can tell you what, Tricia can write about Michael Tracey and I can write about Michael Tracey and you can educate people about Michael Tracey but now about hearing that from the man himself. The man who was hurt, those words really were powerful. You hear Mr. Gigax saying somebody needs to stop Michael Tracey. I mean you can ignore me, you can ignore Tricia Griffith but I don't see how anyone in Boulder, in Denver can ignore those words.
BOYLES: Yesterday what triggered this whole thing with (unclear) he said I don't think, he said to me on the radio show, I don't think Michael Tracey is as involved in this as you think he is and I said you don't know the story. Michael Tracey is the prime mover and Mary Lacy is the total, I mean the fact that Bennett can sit and know that John Gigax called him less than two years ago and he said it sounds like a bunch of crap to me and yet here's Michael Tracey walking in the door again, not with a film this time and we don't even know what e-mail was excluded, how much grooming went on, how much did Michael Tracey feed John Mark Karr.
TONY ORTEGA: That reporter you mentioned, that was the one guy at the press conference asking the tough questions, he was saying where is the evidence, what are you relying on, it couldn't have been just the e-mails and that's sort of the disconnect is it wasn't just the e-mails. It was the e- mails and a certain charismatic individual presenting the e-mails in a certain way and would explain why they were so mesmerized by them.
BOYLES: And last night on Geraldo, I mean last night on Larry King and I was working our show last night but Lin Wood was on and said Michael Tracey also attended along -- Mary Lacy was there, Michael Tracey attended Patsy's funeral. The river runs through it. It's impossible not to see it. So I guess my next question would be, we'll get you guys back tomorrow and see if anyone, and I hope, we'll see anybody from the Rocky, the Post, 2.4.7.9, anybody listening to this. We'll supply John Gigax, sure give them my phone number if they call you. We'll supply any, I don't want this to be our story because it isn't. The story belongs to this man, John Gigax, belongs to Tony Ortega and certainly belongs to Tricia Griffith, all of you I will put you on hold, God bless you both. I don't know how much more powerful you can be than listening to that final moment with Gigax.
BOYLES: Final comments Tony, a comment from you if you wish...
TONY ORTEGA: I've talked to much, I want to hear Tricia say something.
TRICIA GRIFFITH (www.forumsforjustice.org): First of all that was an incredible statement that Mr. Gigax made, it brought tears to my eyes and it's so true and nobody with any heart or soul could ignore that and one little comment I'd like to make, Mr. Gigax talked about another forum owner contacting him saying let's meet with Michael Tracey. That is a woman who I think is Sue Bennett whose crazy and she's very very close to Michael Tracey and I'm glad that Mr. Gigax didn't pay any attention to her or it could have been a whole different story.
BOYLES: Imagine walking into that hornets nest.
TRICIA GRIFFITH: No kidding.
BOYLES: Okay you guys we'll talk in the morning, thank you both. And I hope, please, please, please let's see who listened to that, it will be on our website at KHOW.COM and we also have the Jeff Merrick interview.