June 1998 John Ramsey Interrogation by Lou Smit and Mike Kane (Bob Wallace and his friend)

0066
23 LOU SMIT: Just a quick question while you're
24 on that photograph, and let's show it for the
25 camera here. This shows Patsy and then the

0067
1 children making gingerbread houses. I notice in
2 the report that for the past years you had always
3 bought gingerbread houses. And it seems like they
4 were always a part of your Christmas festivities?
5 JOHN RAMSEY: Well Patsy had one or two
6 made one year. She did an open house for the
7 Historical Society. We were always part of the
8 historical homes tour where they raise money for
9 the Boulder Historical Society, and our house --
10 we opened our house for that. And she had this
11 really elaborate gingerbread house made by bob
12 Wallace, who did some handy work for her. And that
13 sat on our kitchen that year. I think we actually
14 (INAUDIBLE) to use.
15 But then we put it in a plastic bag, and it was
16 real elaborate. And so I think it got reused a
17 year or two before it finally gave up. But I think
18 this is the first year she had had the kids
19 decorate gingerbread houses. And so they were
20 there, but I think it was.
21 LOU SMIT: Sometimes I'm going to be very
22 spontaneous. Bob Wallace, what kind of work did he
23 do for you?
24 JOHN RAMSEY: I think the first time he
25 worked for us he cleaned all the windows. We had

0068
1 just finished our addition the third floor.
2 LOU SMIT: When would that have been?
3 JOHN RAMSEY: '94 maybe; 1994 or '93,'94,
4 somewhere in that timeframe. He was kind of our
5 handyman. Patsy had him help her decorate for
6 Christmas several years. I don't know
if he made
7 the gingerbread house or he had one of his friends
8 make it. I assumed he had the house made.
9 He did occasional handyman work, but mostly I
10 think it was decorating around Christmas time.
11 Because Patsy always decorated the house.
12 LOU SMIT: In '96 did he do that?
13 JOHN RAMSEY: No, I don't remember specifically
14 if he did. Probably not. You see, we were leaving
15 town the next morning after Christmas. So I don't
16 recall. We weren't going to have a Christmas
17 party, so I don't think Patsy did a whole lot of
18 decorating. So I don't recall if he did.
19 (INAUDIBLE)
20 LOU SMIT: Did he have a friend that would
21 come with him occasionally?
22 JOHN RAMSEY: (INAUDIBLE)
23 LOU SMIT: And I've never been able to
24 locate
25 that friend's name.

0069
1 JOHN RAMSEY: I think that he was the guy
2 that
3 did the gingerbread house. I don't know his name.
4 I don't think I ever did know his name.
5 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: (INAUDIBLE). Robert
6 or Rubio?
7 JOHN RAMSEY: Doesn't ring a bell. I don't
8 know if I ever knew his name. Or if I did, I don't
9 quite remember.
10 LOU SMIT: There's a chance that Patsy might.
11 (INAUDIBLE). Maybe tomorrow or whenever we get
12 together again, you can kind of learn that. It
13 just seems to me and, again, I've read so much in
14 this case that sometimes I'm full of information.
15 But it seems to me like I don't know what his
16 sexual proclivity was. But it seemed to me like he
17 was --
18 JOHN RAMSEY: Well, they were both gay.
19 LOU SMIT: That's what I was trying to get
20 at.
21 JOHN RAMSEY: Yeah.
22 LOU SMIT: And that's why I was wondering
23 if he had a gay friend.
24 JOHN RAMSEY: My impression was that they
25 were both gay.

0070
1 LOU SMIT: Would he give, this fellow, Bob
2 Wallace, give Patsy advice at certain advice at
3 certain times, or did they did discuss things? Do
4 you know that?
5 JOHN RAMSEY: (INAUDIBLE).
6 LOU SMIT: Do you know if he had a key to
7 the house?
8 JOHN RAMSEY: It's possible. I don't know
9 if he did. I doubt he did. I don't think that he
10 did. But Patsy, again, would know better than I
11 would.
12 LOU SMIT: Do you know where he came from?
13 I mean, how did she meet this guy?
14 JOHN RAMSEY: That's a good question. I don't
15 recall. I think he was from Denver. I don't know
16 how she ran across him.

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(SNIP)

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June 1998 John Ramsey Interrogation by Lou Smit and Mike Kane (Bob Wallace and his friend)

0071
18 DAVID WILLIAMS: Well, yes. My point was: he
19 cleaned all the windows back in '93, '94. There
20 were screens on them at that time. See that's
21 where we (INAUDIBLE) the screens were already off.
22 JOHN RAMSEY: We took the screens off when we
23 painted the house and he would have cleaned the
24 windows after the paint was done.
25 LOU SMIT: When was the painting done?

0072
1 JOHN RAMSEY: Oh, it was finished just before
2 that Boulder Home Tour, the Historic Home Tour,
3 which I think was in '94. And the painting went on
4 for years.

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(SNIP)

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0298
4 MIKE KANE: You said that the house was
5 already decorated and the person who had done it
6 in the past was Bill Wallace?
7 JOHN RAMSEY: He had helped in the past.
8 I don't recall him being there this year. I know
9 Patsy knew specifically what she did. You know, I
10 don't remember, but it wouldn't have surprised me
11 a bit if she threw up some extra decorations. They
12 were pretty excited that we were having an extra
13 party and so forth. But I don't remember her
14 specifically doing it. But she'd remember.
15 MIKE KANE: Mostly from what I can see from
16 photographs there are garland and things like that
17 look to me to be artificial. Is any of it real?
18 JOHN RAMSEY: The Christmas tree was real.
19 That's about it.
20 MIKE KANE: Do you know if any of the
21 greenery from your yard (INAUDIBLE)?
22 JOHN RAMSEY: Sometimes she'd cut
23 (INAUDIBLE) in my yard, brought in ferns and stuff
24 for her room from the fir family, evergreen. But
25 I'm not sure.

0299
1 MIKE KANE: You don't know?
2 JOHN RAMSEY: (INAUDIBLE) we got some
3 holly in the room.
4 MIKE KANE: You don't (INAUDIBLE)?
5 JOHN RAMSEY: No.
6 MIKE KANE: You don't know whether Wallace
7 took part in that?
8 JOHN RAMSEY: I don't, but Patsy would
9 know for sure.
10 MIKE KANE: When he assisted in doing
11 that, is that what he was? He assisted her?
12 JOHN RAMSEY: Right.
13 MIKE KANE: Or did he kind of do it
14 and she assisted? Which was it?
15 JOHN RAMSEY: I don't know. I knew he was
16 there, I guess, when (INAUDIBLE). I think he was
17 artsy, so I'm sure he had opinions and stuff on
18 what should go where. But I suspect it was
19 probably a joint effort.

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(SNIP)

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0379
9 JOHN RAMSEY: No, it's above that. And
10 typically, it hadn't been working for two or three
11 years, and I got things that needed fixing and I
12 got to fix them. But once the house was done, we
13 had the guy who used to mow the yard, Patsy had
14 the Bob Wallace wash the windows once or twice.
15 On occasion we'd call (INAUDIBLE). That's about
16 it.

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(SNIP)

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0723
13 JOHN RAMSEY: There's no reason to
14 go in there. It was -- I don't know if it used
15 to be a coal storage or something that just was
16 a deed end room. It was, I think there was one
17 light, and it was -- that was it. There was no
18 reason to be -- the types of people that would
19 have known that we know that was there would
20 have been say the painter, because he put his
21 stuff in there. Whoever helped Patsy get the
22 Christmas stuff out, whether it was Linda
23 Hoffman or Rob or Father Rol or whoever it was,
24 but –