June 1998 John Ramsey Interrogation by Lou Smit and Mike Kane (The chair in the basement)

0151
18 LOU SMIT: Okay. Let's back up just a little
19 bit?
20 JOHN RAMSEY: Okay.
21 LOU SMIT: You said that you went through
22 the house at another period of time?
23 JOHN RAMSEY: Um hmm.
24 LOU SMIT: I remember in your report. Did you
25 ever go down to the basement?

0152
1 JOHN RAMSEY: Um hmm. I went.
2 LOU SMIT: Who was with you at that time?
3 JOHN RAMSEY: I was by myself. I was. I had
4 gone down the basement. I went in the --
5 LOU SMIT: You're going to have to back up a
6 little so that the camera (INAUDIBLE)?
7 JOHN RAMSEY: I came down the stairs. I went
8 in this room here. This door was kind of blocked.
9 We had a bunch of junk down here and there was a
10 chair that was in front of the door. Some old
11 things. I moved the chair, went into this room,
12 went back in here. This window was open, maybe
13 that far.
14 LOU SMIT: Okay. You said -- or how far
15 were
16 you? An inch?
17 JOHN RAMSEY: An inch, maybe, or less. It
18 was cracked open.
19 LOU SMIT: Which window?
20 JOHN RAMSEY: I think it was the little one.
21 There's three windows across here, as I recall. I
22 think it was the middle one. It was that was
23 broken. There was pane class broken out of it,
24 which I attributed to breaking myself.
25 LOU SMIT: People go into that basement?

0153
1 JOHN RAMSEY: But it was open and there
2 was
3 a suitcase under it. This hard Samsonite suitcase.
4 LOU SMIT: Describe how the suitcase was
5 positioned?
6 JOHN RAMSEY: It was against the wall. I think
7 the handle was on top. It was directly under the
8 window, as I recall. And I closed the window, I
9 don't know why, but I closed it. And then --
10 LOU SMIT: When you closed it, did you lock
11 it or close it?
12 JOHN RAMSEY: I latched it. There's a little
13 latch on it.
14 LOU SMIT: And you're sure of that?
15 JOHN RAMSEY: Pretty sure, yeah. Yeah, I am
16 sure. I don't think I looked anywhere else. I
17 think at that point I still was trying to figure
18 out how they'd get in the house.
19 LOU SMIT: Well wouldn't that trigger your
20 (INAUDIBLE).
21 JOHN RAMSEY: Yeah. Yeah.
22 LOU SMIT: Did you tell anybody about that?
23 JOHN RAMSEY: I don't really remember. I mean,
24 part of what is going on you're in such a state of
25 disbelief this can even happen. And the, you know,

0154
1 the window had been broken out. And you say hah,
2 that's it. But it was a window that I had used to
3 get into the house before. It was cracked and open
4 a little bit. It wasn't terribly unusual for me.
5 Sometimes it would get opened to let cool air in
6 because that basement could get real hot in
7 winter. So it was like, you know, after I thought
8 about it, I thought it was more of an alarming
9 situation how it struck me at the time. It was
10 still sort of explainable to me that it could have
11 been left open.
12 And the suitcase was unusual. That shouldn't have
13 been there. I took that suitcase downstairs, I
14 remember. But I sure wouldn't have taken it all
15 the way back there and put it against the window.

---

(SNIP)

---

15 LOU SMIT: When you noticed it, about what
16 time was that? That's kind of important. In terms
17 of time now.
18 JOHN RAMSEY: Well it would have been probably
19 before nine o'clock, I would say. It would have
20 been that time period: seven to nine. Cause I was
21 still, you know amidst all this other stuff,
22 trying to figure out what's going on here? How did
23 they get in the house? I know this is before Linda
24 told us to go through the house. It was well
25 before.

0156
1 LOU SMIT: And was there lighting down
2 there
3 or anything at that time?
4 JOHN RAMSEY: I don't specifically, I don't
5 remember that it was on. The lights were probably
6 off, which would have been normal.
7 LOU SMIT: How would you have been able to
8 basement with the lights off, or was it --
9 JOHN RAMSEY: With the lights off at night
10 it would have been hazardous because there's a lot
11 of junk piled in here. This door was kind of
12 blocked with boxes and a little chair. And you
13 could move the chair and then walk right in. But
14 it would have been pitch black; it would have been
15 tough.
16 LOU SMIT: Did you say you had to move that
17 chair to get in?
18 JOHN RAMSEY: Um hmm.

---

(SNIP)

---

0171
18 MIKE KANE: Okay. And then I think you
19 said you did go in the basement to see how
20 (INAUDIBLE) Could you like just picture that scene
21 again and walk me through it?
22 JOHN RAMSEY: Well, when I came down, I
23 mean, one of the things I noticed, okay, that door
24 is still blocked?
25 MIKE KANE: What do you mean it was

0172
1 blocked?
2 JOHN RAMSEY: Well, there were some boxes
3 and there was like a barstool kind of thing
4 sitting there. It wasn't obvious to me that
5 anybody had gone through because I had to move the
6 chair to get in, which I did. And then I came back
7 in here and I noticed the window was broken, which
8 fits from when I did it. But the window was open
9 slightly.
10 MIKE KANE: It might have had a little
11 latch or something?
12 JOHN RAMSEY: Just this little latch. But
13 what I did specifically notice was the suitcase
14 sitting under the window. That was not -- that
15 didn't fit. I could explain why the window was
16 broken or why it might have been partly open, but
17 the suitcase just kind of jumped out at me.

---

(SNIP)

---

0173
9 MIKE KANE: Now you said that that window
10 was open a bit, but that sometimes that had been
11 open before to let air --
12 JOHN RAMSEY: It was open for ventilation.
13 It was wide open, because with the heat all
14 winter, that room would really get hot. So if the
15 kids were down there and playing, you had to open
16 the window.
17 MIKE KANE: And that was a room where the kids
18 played in a lot with the train?
19 JOHN RAMSEY: The train was there. Burke
20 used to play with that. They didn't play there a
21 lot. Burke did, from time to time. But not so
22 much JonBenet. That was Burke's train room.
23 MIKE KANE: And so this was before or do
24 you remember if this was before or after the
25 Whites and Fernies (INAUDIBLE)?

0174
1 JOHN RAMSEY: I think it was after,
2 because they came fairly early.
3 MIKE KANE: Was it long after?
4 JOHN RAMSEY: I really don't remember
5 specifically. The best I can do is, it was, I
6 believe, after the police came. Because they had
7 gone through the house before I figured out what
8 I'm going to do. It was before ten o'clock. They
9 had already done some preparation before that. So
10 it would have been before. Probably before nine.
11 So then somewhere between seven and nine.
12 MIKE KANE: Okay. I think it's, and this
13 may put things into perspective. I think you were
14 saying that you were expecting a phone call
15 between ten and 12. The note said between eight
16 and ten.
17 JOHN RAMSEY: Oh, really?
18 MIKE KANE: So does that note, does
19 that put into context, between eight and ten,
20 where were you?
21 JOHN RAMSEY: (INAUDIBLE) yeah. Really it
22 does. When we were ready for the phone call and I
23 was prepped about what I was going to say and I
24 was getting the family ready. And so between that
25 period of time we were just waiting for the phone

June 1998 John Ramsey Interrogation by Lou Smit and Mike Kane (The chair in the basement)

0175
1 call and I was near the phone. And I was either in
2 the study or on the first floor. I just waiting
3 for it.
4 MIKE KANE: So it would have been before
5 that?
6 JOHN RAMSEY: It would have been before
7 that time period.

---

(SNIP)

---

0277
9 LOU SMIT: I wanted to direct your attention,
10 if you could, John. This photograph 71, and
11 especially in the entryways there and into the
12 various rooms. Now this must have been taken
13 fairly early on the morning of the 26th.
14 Can you describe what you see there? Is there
15 anything out of place or is there anything
16 different from the way you remember it. Because
17 you said you went down into that area.
18 JOHN RAMSEY: What is difference is, I
19 think that the door is blocked by this drum table.
20 Here's the chair I said was brought to the door.
21 And it's not. I moved the chair to get into the
22 door.
23 If this was taken before I was down there -- well
24 I put it back. When I went down there, that chair
25 was kind of blocking that entrance right there.

0278
1 And there was something else on the other side,
2 whatever it was. But all I had to do was move that
3 chair, then I walked into the room.
4 LOU SMIT: That's the first time down?
5 JOHN RAMSEY: Right. In this picture here,
6 I would have had to move that drum table and the
7 Easter basket in that room. So that's different.
8 LOU SMIT: So you say that that's been moved.
9 Which way would you say that's been moved?
10 JOHN RAMSEY: I don't remember the Easter
11 baskets there at all. But it would have had to
12 have been moved. The drum table was over, and the
13 chair was also blocking the door.
14 LOU SMIT: So do you think that the chair
15 would block the door and nobody would have gotten
16 in there without moving it?
17 JOHN RAMSEY: Correct.
18 LOU SMIT: In other words, let's say
19 that the intruder goes into the training room,
20 gets out, let's say, that window?
21 JOHN RAMSEY: Um hmm.
22 LOU SMIT: How in effect would he get
23 that chair to block that door, if that is the
24 case, is what I'm saying?
25 JOHN RAMSEY: I don't know. All I'm saying

0279
1 is, that is different than when I went down there.
2 LOU SMIT: Okay, let's say that you go down
3 there?
4 JOHN RAMSEY: Um hmm. All I want to show
5 is that that chair was kind of sitting right in
6 here, and there was something else here. I don't
7 know what it was. It could have been that
8 (INAUDIBLE).
9 LOU SMIT: You go down, that's what you see?
10 JOHN RAMSEY: I go down, I say, ooh, that door
11 is blocked. I move the chair and went in the room.
12 LOU SMIT: So you couldn't have gotten in
13 without moving the chair?
14 JOHN RAMSEY: Correct.
15 LOU SMIT: And the door was opened or closed?
16 JOHN RAMSEY: It was opened.
17 LOU SMIT: The door was opened?
18 JOHN RAMSEY: correct.
19 LOU SMIT: Okay.
20 JOHN RAMSEY: In that picture, it looks like
21 -- I came in on this side of the door (INAUDIBLE)
22 and would have had to remove that drum table and
23 the Easter basket.
24 MIKE KANE: Which side are you talking about?
25 The inner side or the lock side?

0280
1 JOHN RAMSEY: If I had the door open it
2 must be the lock side. That chair was right there
3 when I went down there, on the lock sided of the
4 door.
5 MIKE KANE: On the opposite the hinges.
6 JOHN RAMSEY: Right. And I moved it and
7 entered the room. And in that picture --
8 LOU SMIT: And you don't know if you were
9 the first one down there?
10 JOHN RAMSEY: I thought I -- Well the police,
11 they probably went through the house a bit. I
12 don't know where they went. I heard later that
13 Fleet White claimed he went through the basement
14 alone. I don't know if that was before or after I
15 did alone.
16 LOU SMIT: That's why we're trying to
17 determine your time. If you can get that down.
18 JOHN RAMSEY: Well, I wish I can tell
19 you precisely, but it had to be -- you see I think
20 when the first uniformed officer came, French, he
21 very quickly said, I want all you people in the
22 room, and then people started showing in this
23 room, which was the solarium where he talked, is
24 the solarium.
25 And then some other officers came and I my

0281
1 impression at that time was that they did a
2 cursory check of the house. One of the uniformed
3 house went through the house. That had been fairly
4 early.
5 MIKE KANE: (INAUDIBLE)
6 JOHN RAMSEY: We don't. I think it's between
7 6:00 and 6:30. So that person should have been the
8 first one to go through the house.
9 I went in the basement, certainly before we were
10 getting ready for the call. (INAUDIBLE) until
11 eight, so that would have been eight o'clock. So
12 we were preparing for that. By 7:30, let's say,
13 and Fleet and I were talking about what we were
14 going to say.
15 LOU SMIT: Would that have been before
16 then or after?
17 JOHN RAMSEY: It would have been before
18 then I believe.
19 LOU SMIT: So it was before eight o'clock?
20 JOHN RAMSEY: That's right. (INAUDIBLE) I'm
21 trying to reconstruct in it my mind.
22 LOU SMIT: But when you went to the train
23 room, you had move these things in order to get
24 into the train room?
25 JOHN RAMSEY: Right. I had to move the chair.

0282
1 LOU SMIT: The thing I'm trying to figure
2 out in my mind then is, if an intruder went
3 through the door, he'd almost have to pull the
4 chair behind him.
5 JOHN RAMSEY: Yeah. That's correct.
6
7 LOU SMIT: Because that would have been
8 his exit?
9 JOHN RAMSEY: Right.
10 LOU SMIT: Okay.
11 JOHN RAMSEY: Yeah. It was blocked. He'd
12 have to move something to get into the room.
13 LOU SMIT: And he would have had to move
14 it back, if he was in there trying to get out, is
15 that correct?
16 JOHN RAMSEY: Yeah.
17 LOU SMIT: So that's not very logical as
18 far as --
19 JOHN RAMSEY: I think it is. I mean if this
20 person is that bizarrely clever to have not left
21 any good evidence, but left all these little funny
22 little clues around, they certain are clever
23 enough to pull the chair back when they left.
24 LOU SMIT: But it was your impression that
25 that chair was blocking that door?

0283
1 JOHN RAMSEY: Right. The chair and something
2 else. But it certainly wasn't the Easter baskets.
3 They were sitting there on the drum table. So I
4 never touched them. I just moved the chair and
5 went in.
6 LOU SMIT: And that's one of the things
7 that we have to really get clear, because the
8 photographs were taken fairly early that morning.
9 JOHN RAMSEY: But I think the question is,
10 would a police officer have done that? Probably
11 not. Would Fleet White have done that? I don't
12 know. Just looking at this picture, it doesn't
13 appear to me that that chair had anything to do
14 with the door. But, you know, geez, I wish I could
15 remember. But I don't remember moving that. I
16 really don't. all I remember is kind of moving the
17 chair and walking in.
18 LOU SMIT: And sometimes the photograph
19 perspective is a little bit different. You don't
20 really have the perspective on the photograph. But
21 that's why we just wanted to clarify that. In
22 effect, it's just a question that I had.