s-evidence-garage.htm


	A Personal view of the Internet Subculture Surrounding the JonBenet Ramsey Murder case

This web page is part of a series covering found materials regarding individuals, items or events that apparently became part of what is commonly known as the vortex of the JonBenet Ramsey murder case Christmas night 1996. The webmaster of this site claims no inside official Boulder police information as to who has been interviewed, investigated, the outcome or what information is actually considered official evidence. These pages outline found material which can include but not limited to materials found in books, articles, the Internet, transcripts, depositions, legal documents, Internet discussion forums, graphics or photos, media reports, TV/Radio shows about the JonBenet Ramsey murder case. Found materials are here for historical archive purposes. (www.acandyrose.com - acandyrose@aol.com)

This webpage series is for historical archive and educational purposes on found materials


Evidence - Garage --

CHAIN OF EVENTS 1998

1998-06-23: Patsy Ramsey Interview (Thomas Haney, Trip DeMuth)
(Screen Capture from "CBS 48 Hours - Searching for a Killer" 10/04/2002)

Patsy Ramsey Interrogation by Thomas Haney and Trip DeMuth - Present also were Patrick Burke and Ellis Armistead June 23, 24, 25, 1998 - Boulder, Colorado

http://www.jonbenetindexguide.com/1998BPD-Patsy-Interview-Complete.htm

June 1998 Patsy Ramsey Interrogation by Thomas Haney and Trip DeMuth (Garage)

0057
3 TOM HANEY: Let's take a minute and
4 think about it. Because it seems like from the
5 prior statement that he had done some things or
6 that you had guys had had some discussions about
7 him checking doors?
8 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah, well, you
9 know, he did that when I was pacing back here,
10 "how did he get in, how did he get in?"
11 I remember John checking this door
12 and that was usually always unlocked because
13 that goes to the garage.
14 TOM HANEY: Was this prior to the
15 phone call to 911?
16 PATSY RAMSEY: This probably was.
17 You know, we were just right in there. You
18 know, I just don't -- this all happened so fast.
19 TOM HANEY: So at some point there,
20 though, he checks that door to--
21 PATSY RAMSEY: He checks that, I
22 think he checked this one.
23 TOM HANEY: Okay, let's stick with
24 the garage door first, the walk-in door. What
25 did he do to check that?

0058
1 PATSY RAMSEY: He opened the door
2 and kind of jiggled the handle, you know, to see
3 whether it was locked or not.
4 TOM HANEY: Is it normally locked?
5 PATSY RAMSEY: It's normally
6 unlocked, because this is the garage door and
7 that's where you come in.
8 TOM HANEY: So checking that and
9 moving the handle--
10 PATSY RAMSEY: It sometimes
11 accidentally gets locked, and we get locked out,
12 but typically it's left open, left unlocked.
13 TOM HANEY: Is it just a little
14 button to--
15 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah.
16 TOM HANEY: When you turn that to
17 go out and it will lock itself?
18 PATSY RAMSEY: Yes.
19 TOM HANEY: But he checks that?
20 PATSY RAMSEY: Right.

(SNIP)

0060
15 TRIP DeMUTH: Okay. The garage
16 door, did you ask her if it was locked or
17 unlocked?
18 TOM HANEY: Yeah, but go ahead.
19 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know
20 whether it was or not, but typically we left
21 that unlocked.
22 TRIP DeMUTH: You don't know what
23 condition it was in?
24 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
25 TRIP DeMUTH: What about the south

0061
1 door?
2 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know.
3 TOM HANEY: Did you yourself check
4 any doors?
5 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
6 TOM HANEY: Or John checked two
7 that we know of, the garage and this south door
8 and possibly--
9 PATSY RAMSEY: Possibly that one.
10 TOM HANEY: Did he ever tell you
11 that he checked that butler door?
12 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
13 TOM HANEY: So he is checking those
14 doors and that would have been the, to put this
15 in sequence, prior to your 911 call.
16 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, I don't know
17 if it was prior or not. No, no. I think I
18 called the 911 pretty quick, because he was
19 still in his underwear. And I think when he was
20 checking those doors he was dressed.

(SNIP)

0073
1 TRIP DeMUTH: Could you hear her
2 toilet flush or anything, the plumbing?
3 PATSY RAMSEY: Probably.
4 TRIP DeMUTH: Okay. Could you hear
5 the garage door from your bedroom go up and
6 down?
7 PATSY RAMSEY: No
.

(SNIP)

0158
8 THOMAS HANEY: The alarm that you
9 had at the Boulder house here, when was the last
10 time that you had used it?
11 PATSY RAMSEY: When JonBenet was
12 probably about two years old, we were still
13 doing a lot of construction, and I mean there
14 were people in and out of that house all the
15 time, fixing things and I didn't know what they
16 were working on. I knew they were working on
17 the alarm system. But I didn't really think
18 that it worked yet. Because we had had a lot of
19 doors and windows taken out and put back in, so
20 I thought it was kind of in the works.
21 Well, one evening, John and I just
22 sat down with a glass of wine and, you know,
23 boom, boom, boom, you know, all things. And we
24 went running back to the key pad, which was back
25 there by the garage door, and JonBenet had

0159
1 pulled her little chair over next to the door
2 and I think she was trying to reach the garage
3 door button, garage door open button, which was
4 just above it. And she pushed you know, two,
5 three, four buttons on that alarm key pad, and
6 it all -- everything broke loose. I mean it was
7 deafening. And here came the squad cars and the
8 ambulance and the fire truck, you know, the
9 whole thing. Whole nine yards.
10 And -- and so we never really used
11 it. They were asking me what's your code. I
12 said I didn't know I had a code because I didn't
13 know the thing was working yet.
14 THOMAS HANEY: So you never --
15 PATSY RAMSEY: We never had used 16 it. But we had it, it was in the house when we
17 bought it and we -- we did whatever you do to
18 activate the fire alarm, you know, tied into
19 that. Smoke detectors and all. If it went off,
20 it can call the fire people like that, but we
21 never, you know, set it. Because it was always
22 going, it seemed like it went off erratically,
23 more than it was worth. You know. And like I
24 said, we kind of had been lulled into the, you
25 know, complacent feeling of security. So --

(SNIP)

0213
18 THOMAS HANEY: Not that you haven't
19 been working, but, I understand that being at
20 home is plenty of work, but out in the work
21 force. Okay. Have you and John over the last
22 year and a half discussed the intruder theory?
23 Yesterday we talked about a couple of other
24 theories.
25 PATSY RAMSEY: Yes.

0214
1 THOMAS HANEY: What can you tell
2 me, what are your -- what are your feelings,
3 insights?
4 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, I mean, can
5 you be more specific or --
6 THOMAS HANEY: No, you know that's
7 the beauty of it, asking a real general
8 question, I think is to give you the opportunity
9 to take the ball and run.
10 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, I men, he and
11 I both know there was someone else in the house
12 that night. Beyond that, we don't know.
13 THOMAS HANEY: Have you given
14 thought to how this person gained access?
15 PATSY RAMSEY: Yes. I mean, we
16 have gone to test doors, unfortunately, I am
17 sorry to say, and there were a number of little
18 access ways through the garage, those little
19 doors. That was accessible. The basement
20 window, we had a basement window that faced the
21 front of the house, faced the Barnhills' house,
22 where I would run my Christmas lights, so that
23 window was unlocked. And then this window in
24 the rear of the house where John could come in
25 if he was locked out, under the grate kind of

0215
1 thing, that was open. If someone wanted in,
2 they could get in.
3 TRIP DeMUTH: The window in front,
4 does it have bars on it?
5 PATSY RAMSEY: It does have bars on
6 it.
7 TRIP DeMUTH: I mean were those
8 fastened so that --
9 PATSY RAMSEY: I just can't
10 remember. I don't really know. But all I know
11 is it wasn't tightened secure like you might --
12 TRIP DeMUTH: The window itself?
13 PATSY RAMSEY: Right.
14 TRIP DeMUTH: Because it would have
15 a hole in it?
16 PATSY RAMSEY: The wires.
17 TRIP DeMUTH: But you don't know
18 anything about the bars being loose or removed
19 or anything like that?
20 PATSY RAMSEY: No, I can't
21 remember.
22 TRIP DeMUTH: Okay.

(SNIP)

June 1998 Patsy Ramsey Interrogation by Thomas Haney and Trip DeMuth (Garage)

0315
5 THOMAS HANEY: But if it was --
6 it's somebody who was around your house
7 regularly?
8 PATSY RAMSEY: They would know that
9 this was the staircase we most frequently used.
10 THOMAS HANEY: Okay, that that's
11 your habit?
12 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-hum.
13 TRIP DeMUTH: Would they know
14 that's where you leave papers and what-have-you
15 to take upstairs? How often did you do that?
16 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, pretty often.
17 I mean, John would come in from the garage, from
18 work, and leave things on the bar and then from
19 there, if he needed to take it to his desk and
20 stack 'em there and take 'em on up, you know.
21 We just left a lot of things there to be brought
22 up, coming down.

(SNIP)

0338
9 PATSY RAMSEY: That looks like the inside
10 door to the patio.
11 TRIP DEMUTH: Sixty-one.
12 PATSY RAMSEY: That looks like it would be in
13 the locked position. Dead bolt.
14 TRIP DEMUTH: Sixty-two.
15 PATSY RAMSEY: My messy garage. That is
16 looking out over the car, the door that leads out to
17 the patio. Christmas declarations there.
18 TOM HANEY: Is that door pretty much locked
19 or is it used. It looks likes it is --
20 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, it is locked around this
21 time of the year because I had all of these Christmas
22 ornament boxes out there, but it is usually locked.
23 TOM HANEY: In the garage there, the garage
24 door itself.
25 PATSY RAMSEY: The big one here.

0339
1 TOM HANEY: Yeah. Was that down in the
2 morning?
3 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah.
4 TOM HANEY: Do you remember closing it when
5 you got home that night, or did John?
6 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't remember specifically
7 that. We usually came in, closed the door, hit the
8 button.
9 TOM HANEY: Pretty much routine?
10 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah.
11 TOM HANEY: Photo 63.
12 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-huh.
13 TRIP DEMUTH: Which vehicle did you take to
14 the lake, was that the white Jaquar, is that what that
15 is?
16 PATSY RAMSEY: (Inaudible). Yeah, I'm almost
17 sure. Yeah, I think it is. And there is JonBenet's
18 coat back there.
19 TRIP DEMUTH: Is that the coat she wore that
20 night?
21 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah. I think so.
22 TRIP DEMUTH: Sixty-four.
23 PATSY RAMSEY: This is the door between the
24 cloak room there out to the garage. These are bells in
25 the back door. This door was definitely kept unlocked.

0340
1 TOM HANEY: Could you hear the bells if you
2 opened the door?
3 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah.
4 TRIP DEMUTH: Could you hear it from the
5 bedroom?
6 PATSY RAMSEY: Doubtful. This is the hallway
7 looking out to the patio. This is like a little
8 jewelry making kit, a bead maker. This is for
9 JonBenet.
10 TOM HANEY: Earlier.
11 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah, I couldn't tell. That
12 is (inaudible). A little package. It looks like --
13 don't know. Isn't that a stain or something?
14 TOM HANEY: Is that something with the bead
15 making kit?
16 PATSY RAMSEY: Maybe. I believe it is
17 stacked up here. Earrings and sunglasses and papers
18 and things.
19 TRIP DEMUTH: All is normal?
20 PATSY RAMSEY: Yes.

(SNIP)

0363
14 TRIP DEMUTH: We see Pierre in photo 89.
15 TOM HANEY: When do you recall the last time
16 the key was under there?
17 PATSY RAMSEY: Don't know.
18 TOM HANEY: Do you ever recall pulling out to
19 look under Pierre and not having a key?
20 PATSY RAMSEY: Yes.
21 TOM HANEY: Do you recall when that would
22 have been?
23 PATSY RAMSEY: No. I think actually -- no,
24 let me think. I locked myself out one time and I
25 looked under Pierre for the key and there was no key.

0364
1 And I think I had to go to Betty. Betty couldn't find
2 her key. That is how I know she misplaced her key.
3 I think I called Barbara Fernie from Betty's.
4 I said, where are you, can you come by my house and let
5 me in. I do remember that, but I don't know when that
6 was. I mean, it was certainly before all this, but how
7 far back I don't know.
8 TOM HANEY: What was your usual method though
9 for coming in?
10 PATSY RAMSEY: Garage door opener, go in, and
11 then the inside garage door was unlocked. I had never
12 used the house key ever.
13 TOM HANEY: Did you ever hide a key on the
14 cars?
15 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
16 TRIP DEMUTH: How did you lock yourself out?
17 How did that happen?
18 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know. I don't know.
19 I must have usually -- when that would happen it was
20 because I went out the front door to go lift somebody
21 someplace and be in the car with my opener. I just
22 can't remember.
23 I remember looking, there wasn't a key.
24 Betty didn't have a key, and I had to run to Barbara's
25 house somewhere. Maybe I had been out with Barbara

0365
1 that morning. I don't know.
2 Maybe Barbara would remember.

(SNIP)

5 TOM HANEY: Ninety-seven.
6 PATSY RAMSEY: The back of the house; the
7 garage door; the wagon; the trash can.
8 TRIP DEMUTH: Nothing out of place?
9 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
10 TRIP DEMUTH: Okay. Trash can is where you
11 left it?
12 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah. Ninety-eight, this is
13 white, a sail board or whatever it is.
14 TRIP DEMUTH: Okay.
15 PATSY RAMSEY: That is Burke's sled.

(SNIP)

0502
17 TRIP DeMUTH: Would you know if those bats,
18 or Burke's bat, or anybody's bat for that
19 matter, would be allowed in the house wherever
20 in the house? Do bats ever come inside?
21 PATSY RAMSEY: Oh, I think if they would be
22 in any part of the house, they would be in the
23 garage, you know, in the garage right there
24 before you, you known, leaning up before you
25 come in the door, because they're usually dirty

0503
1 and I can't ever recall them being like up in
2 the play room or anything like that.
3 TRIP DeMUTH: Okay. Did you have a rule
4 against bringing the bats in the house?
5 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
6 TRIP DeMUTH: Okay. So it's possible that
7 one of the boys may have brought it in?
8 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah.
9 TRIP DeMUTH: Do you remember any baseball
10 bats ever being in the basement?
11 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
12 TRIP DeMUTH: Okay. Anybody ever store
13 them down in the basement?
14 PATSY RAMSEY: No, they would either be in
15 the garage or out here somewhere more than
16 likely.
17 TRIP DeMUTH: You never stored a baseball
18 bat in the basement?
19 PATSY RAMSEY: I can't say that I never
20 did, I can't remember.

(SNIP)

0517
17 TRIP DeMUTH: Uh-huh (yes). Did you guys
18 use this flashlight much?
19 PATSY RAMSEY: I didn't, no.
20 TRIP DeMUTH: Who did?
21 PATSY RAMSEY: John used it.
22 TRIP DeMUTH: What did he use it for?
23 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know, looking in the
24 garage and the car or something like that.
25 TRIP DeMUTH: Okay. Had you ever seen it

0518
1 on the kitchen counter before?
2 PATSY RAMSEY: Not that I recall.
3 TRIP DeMUTH: Would it have struck you as
4 unusual, or would that not be outside the realm
5 of possibilities, given the habits of the
6 family?
7 PATSY RAMSEY: It seems like it would have
8 been unusual to have made it all the way into
9 the kitchen, because usually if somebody was
10 using the flashlight, they were -- John was
11 looking at something in the garage or under the
12 car or something like that.

1998-06-23: John Ramsey Interrogation by Lou Smit and Mike Kane
(Screen Capture from "CBS 48 Hours Investigates - Searching for a Killer" 10/04/2002)

John Ramsey Interrogation by Lou Smit and Mike Kane
Present also were Bryan Morgan, PI David Williams
June 23, 24, 25, 1998 - Boulder, Colorado

http://www.jonbenetindexguide.com/1998BPD-John-Interview-Complete.htm

June 1998 John Ramsey Interrogation by Lou Smit and Mike Kane (Garage)

0064
6 LOU SMIT: Okay. Did you go to the
7 Barnhills
8 to pick up a bike?
9 JOHN RAMSEY: Yeah, Christmas Eve. We'd
10 given JonBenet a bike; we got Patsy a bike. We
11 were giving Burke a bike but not that year.
12 Anyway, there was a bike that we put in their
13 basement, and I gone over after the kids went to
14 bed to get it to put it under the tree. And Joe
15 went down to the garage and went down to get it
16 and brought it up. I offered to go get it and he
17 said no, he'd go get it himself. I don't know
18 where it specifically was, whether it was actually
19 in his garage or his basement.
20 LOU SMIT: You know, I've looked at a lot
21 of pictures in regards to this particular case and
22 I can't remember seeing any bikes. What happened
23 to the bikes?
24 JOHN RAMSEY: Well, they were in the garage,
25 I guess. JonBenet rode her bike for a moment

0065
1 outside before we went to the White's; just round
2 the patio. I'm sure that went back in the garage.
3 Patsy's bike, I don't know, it could have gone in
4 the garage. I don't remember.
5 LOU SMIT: Have you seen it since, Patsy's
6 bike?
7 JOHN RAMSEY: Yeah. We have it.
8 LOU SMIT: (INAUDIBLE) took it?
9 JOHN RAMSEY: No. We gave, Jonbenet's bike
10 we gave away. Patsy's bike we haven't (INAUDIBLE).

(SNIP)

0082
2 LOU SMIT: Kind of think about that because
3 that's kind of important. Who was in the basement
4 close to the time of Christmas.
5 JOHN RAMSEY: Well certainly we both would
6 have been because Patsy did most of her wrapping
7 down there. And that's where all the present stuff
8 was stored. So in the process of getting ready for
9 Christmas that would certainly have been down
10 there and been in there.
11 The only thing I remember is going over to Joe's
12 and getting the bike out of his garage. And then
13 after Patsy went upstairs, I had her bike in our
14 garage and I got that out and put it by the tree.
15 And then I went upstairs.
16 LOU SMIT: So both bikes then were at the
17 tree. You just took the one from Joe Barnhill and
18 put it by the tree?
19 JOHN RAMSEY: And brought Patsy's in from
20 the garage.

(SNIP)

0098
24 LOU SMIT: Now later on the evening, I know
25 you dropped some presents off at different places.

0099
1 And I want to go back to the presents a little bit
2 again. Someone would have had to load them into
3 the car. Do your remember anything about that?
4 JOHN RAMSEY: No, I don't. I don't remember
5 loading anything.
6 LOU SMIT: Okay. Which car did you take?
7 JOHN RAMSEY: We took Patsy's white Jaguar.
8 LOU SMIT: Okay. Now I noticed you had another
9 vehicle in the garage. What was that?
10 JOHN RAMSEY: It should have been a black
11 Grand Cherokee.
12 LOU SMIT: And whose was that?
13 JOHN RAMSEY: That was mine.
14 LOU SMIT: Did you normally use that for work?
15 JOHN RAMSEY: I drove it -- unless the weather
16 was bad, and then we swapped.
17 LOU SMIT: Did you drive it to the airport
18 that day?
19 JOHN RAMSEY: I sure did. Yeah. I did.

(SNIP)

0110
7 LOU SMIT: So when you leave the Steins,
8 Patsy returns or whatever and that's just a short
9 distance to your house, I imagine. What? Just a
10 couple of minutes? And was Burke asleep at this
11 time (INAUDIBLE)?
12 JOHN RAMSEY: JonBenet, when we pulled into
13 the drive, she was sound asleep because I remember
14 getting her out of the car and she was just out.
15 LOU SMIT: Let's stop here.
16 JOHN RAMSEY: Okay.
17 LOU SMIT: Because I don't want to get into
18 another area before noon. And I'd like to go over
19 these notes a little bit. There's a few think that
20 I think and we can just start again.

(SNIP)

0111
22 LOU SMIT: Okay. The time now is approximately
23 five minutes till one. Still on Tuesday the 23rd
24 of June, 1998. And present in the room again is
25 everybody that was here before. And we did break

0111
1 for lunch.
2 I think when we left off, John, was when you were
3 driving into the garage at home. This would have
4 been during the evening of Christmas of 1996. so
5 later on what I'm going to have you do is draw on
6 the diagram where you went in the house and
7 everything. But for now let's just talk about it,
8 okay. And kind of walk through it. And I know this
9 is going to probably get harder as it goes, but
10 we'll get through this at some point.
11 JOHN RAMSEY: Um hmm.
12 LOU SMIT: Now you go home after leaving the
13 Stines. To your knowledge JonBenet is asleep in
14 the backseat and she's directly behind you?
15 JOHN RAMSEY: Um hmm.
16 LOU SMIT: You pull into the garage. And just
17 let me, we're kind of going slower through this.
18 How do you get into the garage? I mean, does it --
19 JOHN RAMSEY: We have a garage opener in the
20 car and, as I recall, I think I parked on the
21 right side of the garage. Yeah, I'm pretty sure it
22 was the right side. And the kind of routine was
23 that I took JonBenet out and Patsy took care of
24 Burke. But JonBenet was sound asleep. In fact, I
25 was surprised at how she was because I picked her

0112
1 up or tried to pick her up and she was just really
2 out. Because I kind of struggled a little bit to
3 get her in my arms.
4 LOU SMIT: Is that a two-door or four-door
5 car?
6 JOHN RAMSEY: Four-door.
7 LOU SMIT: Okay.
8 JOHN RAMSEY: And I just remember thinking,
9 (Boy, she is really out. Because I sort of
10 struggled a little bit. It wasn't graceful getting
11 her out, and yet she didn't wake up. And carrying
12 her up stairs, up the back stairs and lay her on
13 the bed. I don't remember --
14 LOU SMIT: Well let's go through that slowly.
15 JOHN RAMSEY: All right.
16 LOU SMIT: In other words, you had her in your
17 arms? Now do you have a door between the kitchen
18 and the garage there?
19 JOHN RAMSEY: Um hmm.
20 LOU SMIT: Did you precede Patsy or did you --
21 JOHN RAMSEY: Gee, I don't remember. That door
22 is normally unlocked because we lock the garage
23 door and then we don't lock that door. And it's
24 kind of, as I recall, it's kind of one of these
25 latch handles so it's easy to open, I think. I

0113
1 don't remember who went in first.
2 I had JonBenet in my arms. Her head was in this
3 arm, and we went in the backdoor?
4 LOU SMIT: In the (INAUDIBLE) room?
5 JOHN RAMSEY: To the (INAUDIBLE) and up the
6 little spiral staircase.
7 LOU SMIT: Where you carried her in your arms
8 up the spiral staircase?
9 JOHN RAMSEY: (INAUDIBLE) and --
10 LOU SMIT: Does the garage door close
11 automatically?
12 JOHN RAMSEY: No.
13 LOU SMIT: Or was it open for a little while?
14 JOHN RAMSEY: Well it doesn't close automatically.
15 There's a button by the door. Normal practice
16 would have been to close it from the inside at
17 some point.
18 LOU SMIT: Think about this. You had her in
19 your arms (INAUDIBLE)?
20 JOHN RAMSEY: I don't remember closing the
21 door myself. I only remember carrying her.
22 LOU SMIT: Think about that at some point,
23 okay? Now you do remember going up the spiral
24 staircase?
25 JOHN RAMSEY: Yes.

0114
1 MIKE KANE: In terms of the button on the
2 garage door, is it on the interior of the garage
3 or the interior of the house?
4 JOHN RAMSEY: I think it's on the interior
5 of the house.
6 MIKE KANE: So you can be fully in the house
7 before you push that button?
8 JOHN RAMSEY: I believe so, as I recall,
9 yeah.
10 So, anyway, I took her upstairs, laid her on the
11 bed. Usually what I would do, and I remember
12 either taking her shoes off or taking her coat
13 off, kind of getting her sort of started and then
14 Patsy took over getting her into bed. I went down
15 stairs --
16 LOU SMIT: How did you get downstairs?
17 JOHN RAMSEY: Probably the back stairway,
18 which is normally how I would have gone up and
19 down. But I'm not really sure.

(SNIP)

0122
18 LOU SMIT: When you came into the garage that
19 night, do you recall the conditions, the weather
20 conditions and the road conditions that may --
21 JOHN RAMSEY: Well, the drive way was totally
22 clear. I remember that because (INAUDIBLE). I mean
23 there was nothing going on weather wise, because I
24 would have noticed that because we were leaving in
25 the morning. So there was nothing going on weather

0123
1 wise when we came in. It didn't give me any cause
2 to worry what the weather was going to be like.
3 LOU SMIT: Do you call that it snowed or
4 rained?
5 JOHN RAMSEY: There was no snow at all when
6 we came in. I got up the next morning and looked
7 out. The sky was sort of breaking up. It look like
8 some evidence of some snow in the trees, so it had
9 snowed a little bit. But I remember thinking that
10 it was no big deal.
11 LOU SMIT: Where did you look out at that
12 time?
13 JOHN RAMSEY: I'm pretty sure it was out
14 of my windows in the dressing area.
15 LOU SMIT: If you could show us that in the
16 diagram here?
17 JOHN RAMSEY: Just study that. I remember
18 thinking that there was no concern.
19 LOU SMIT: Do you remember that there could
20 have been a light sprinkling of snow?
21 JOHN RAMSEY: There was a little snow in some
22 trees (INAUDIBLE).
23 LOU SMIT: Would that mean there was possible
24 snow in the driveway area (INAUDIBLE).
25 JOHN RAMSEY: I didn't look specifically.

0124
1 But I would have if it had been enough snow if I
2 would have been concerned about the runway, for
3 example, it would have caused me to think, (Oh
4 oh. All I remember thinking is (INAUDIBLE) it's
5 not going to be a problem.

(SNIP)

0126
12 LOU SMIT: How about packing at all? I mean,
13 were you already packed?
14 JOHN RAMSEY: I'm a light traveler when we
15 go to the lake. I've got clothes up there. I don't
16 remember packing anything. I probably would have
17 taken, it seems like I had a heavy coat I wanted
18 to take with me. But that was about it. Because I
19 got everything I --
20 LOU SMIT: What kind of a coat?
21 JOHN RAMSEY: I would be guessing. I think
22 I was going to take a coat. Because it was have
23 been winter there.
24 LOU SMIT: What kind of clothes do you have
25 up there? You had that one that you were taking

0127
1 with you?
2 JOHN RAMSEY: Oh, I've got one kind. (INAUDIBLE)
3 It's like a fake nagahide kind of. I think that's
4 the coat I wanted to take.
5 LOU SMIT: So you're a light packer and you
6 don't remember packing anything?
7 JOHN RAMSEY: I'm sure I didn't pack anything.
8 I just took the coat. Anything I was setting to
9 take I would have done in the morning. But the
10 only thing I remember is that I wanted to take
11 this coat.
12 LOU SMIT: Did you take a shaving kit?
13 JOHN RAMSEY: No, no. I've got all that
14 stuff up there.
15 LOU SMIT: So you got up. What about Patsy
16 and the kids? There were various things. What do
17 you remember about that?
18 JOHN RAMSEY: About us packing?
19 LOU SMIT: Um hmm.
20 JOHN RAMSEY: I know we had some suitcases set by
21 the back door to go.
22 LOU SMIT: And the backdoor would have been?
23 JOHN RAMSEY: The garage door.
24 LOU SMIT: The back garage door. What kind of
25 suitcases would they have been?

0128
1 JOHN RAMSEY: They were, as I recall, there
2 was a black carryon, one of those, I remember it
3 was a pop out.
4 LOU SMIT: You remember that specifically?
5 JOHN RAMSEY: Pretty specifically. I think
6 I
7 had my computer; I think I had my little lap top
8 computer there ready to go.
9 LOU SMIT: (INAUDIBLE)?
10 JOHN RAMSEY: I think that was set out the
11 night before.
12 LOU SMIT: When would you have done that?
13 JOHN RAMSEY: I can't remember if that was
14 before we went to the Whites or after. I think it
15 was (INAUDIBLE).
16 LOU SMIT: (INAUDIBLE)?
17 JOHN RAMSEY: Yeah. Yeah.
18 LOU SMIT: And you would have just left that
19 by the door and then take it with you?
20 JOHN RAMSEY: As we left, yeah. I would take
21 it out.

(SNIP)

June 1998 John Ramsey Interrogation by Lou Smit and Mike Kane (Garage)

0157
25 LOU SMIT: Do you remember the crime scene

0158
1 techs coming with their equipment?
2 JOHN RAMSEY: Yeah.
3 LOU SMIT: Would you know if he went down
4 there before or after they were there?
5 JOHN RAMSEY: Before, I would say.
6 LOU SMIT: Okay.
7 JOHN RAMSEY: Yeah, I think before.
8 LOU SMIT: So after you checked the basement,
9 what did you do then? Do you remember?
10 JOHN RAMSEY: Not specifically. I came back up.
11 But I don't remember exactly what I after that
12 point. At one point I did go out to check this
13 door here because there was a bunch of boxes piled
14 in front of it. It was locked. Then I came out
15 here and went around and it was locked.
16 LOU SMIT: So you came out the south door
17 and checked the garage door and then you went back
18 in the south door. How long would that have taken?
19 JOHN RAMSEY: Twenty seconds. Not very long,
20 thirty seconds, if that.
21 LOU SMIT: Other than that, did you ever
22 leave the house that morning?
23 JOHN RAMSEY: No.

(SNIP)

0214
15 LOU SMIT: Sure. I'd like to talk about
16 the window rail and the broken window that's at
17 the scene. Do you have any other areas you'd like
18 to (INAUDIBLE)? The reason that I want to talk
19 about that is, in your mind there could be a
20 potential point that (INAUDIBLE)? You're not sure
21 that we ran across that with you. Now let's just
22 talk about that a little bit.
23 You say that earlier you had gone in that same
24 window. Now, can you remember when this was or the
25 circumstances surrounding doing that?

0215
1 JOHN RAMSEY: Well I can't remember
2 exactly when it was. I've done it maybe twice,
3 maybe three times during the period of time we
4 owned the house. It was a way that I could get in
5 the house if we didn't have a key that was least
6 expensive to repair. It was one single pane of
7 non-insulated glass and.
8 I think that was done one summer I came back late
9 in the evening. Patsy and the kids were delayed,
10 and for some reason I didn't have a key. I don't
11 know why. But usually if I don't drive my car I
12 take a cab or something to the airport and back,
13 and I don't have a key and the house keys are on
14 the key ring.
15 But that was the time, it was in the summer I had
16 come back from a business trip. I think I had a
17 suit on. It was late. It was like about 11:30 at
18 night. It was dark. It was (INAUDIBLE) Amazingly I
19 took the grill off. I think I probably kicked the
20 window with my foot and then reached in and
21 unlatched the window.
22 LOU SMIT: Were you alone at that time?
23 JOHN RAMSEY: Yeah.
24 LOU SMIT: First of all, now when you
25 drove home, did you drive home when you got in

0216
1 that late that night?
2 JOHN RAMSEY: I don't recall specifically.
3 But I think I took (INAUDIBLE) and it dropped me
4 off.
5 LOU SMIT: And then they dropped you off
6 there at the house.
7 JOHN RAMSEY: Right.
8 LOU SMIT: So you don't have a garage
9 door opener at that time, is that what you're
10 saying?
11 JOHN RAMSEY: Right.
12 LOU SMIT: Do you normally have a garage
13 opener?
14 JOHN RAMSEY: In my car. See I have a
15 garage opener I can get in the house because we
16 never lock the door in the garage that goes in the
17 house. And that was 98 percent of the time how I
18 got in the house.
19 LOU SMIT: Where would (INAUDIBLE)?
20 JOHN RAMSEY: Probably the garage, in the
21 garage through that door. And I think I had given
22 my key to John Andrew or somebody. I didn't have
23 it. Very rarely that I use the key to unlock the
24 door into my house because I've always had a
25 garage --

0217
1 LOU SMIT: You mean it's normal in the car?
2 JOHN RAMSEY: Yeah.
3 LOU SMIT: Okay. And at that time of night I
4 assume you didn't want to call a locksmith for
5 that?
6 JOHN RAMSEY: Well I didn't have any way
7 to call. (INAUDIBLE) I remember it was late. I
8 could go to my neighbors.
9 LOU SMIT: And you say the family was gone?
10 JOHN RAMSEY: Um hmm.
11 LOU SMIT: And did you ever keys like to the
12 neighbors or anything?
13 JOHN RAMSEY: Well The Barnhills had a key.
14 I don't know if know if I remember that at the
15 time. It was late. I'm sure I wouldn't have gone
16 over anyway. But I always wished I would have done
17 is bury one somewhere under a rock or something.
18 One time we had one under a statute. But could
19 also be used by somebody (INAUDIBLE) So we moved
20 it.

(SNIP)

0381
1 MIKE KANE: There's been a lot of (INAUDIBLE)
2 about people who had keys. So I don't want to
3 belabor that point. But you said yesterday that
4 you had a garage door opener. Was one in each car?
5 JOHN RAMSEY: There were three or four.
6 There was one in each car. Well, I take that back.
7 There were three garage openers. The cars we had
8 most recently had those kind of new programs. So
9 whether the garage door opener is in the car or
10 not, I open it in the unit. So there was a
11 separate unit.
12 There was won that we put out under the barbecue
13 grill cover once for a while as just kind of a
14 backup for us getting in the garage.

0381
1 MIKE KANE: There's been a lot of (INAUDIBLE)
2 about people who had keys. So I don't want to
3 belabor that point. But you said yesterday that
4 you had a garage door opener. Was one in each car?
5 JOHN RAMSEY: There were three or four.
6 There was one in each car. Well, I take that back.
7 There were three garage openers. The cars we had
8 most recently had those kind of new programs. So
9 whether the garage door opener is in the car or
10 not, I open it in the unit. So there was a
11 separate unit.
12 There was won that we put out under the barbecue
13 grill cover once for a while as just kind of a
14 backup for us getting in the garage.
15 MIKE KANE: (INAUDIBLE)?
16 JOHN RAMSEY: It was prior to December '96,
17 but I would say it was in '96 some time. I think
18 my son had a garage door opener in his car.
19 LOU SMIT: By the way, where was John
20 Andrew's car at night?
21 JOHN RAMSEY: He had parked it, I think
22 down near where he lived on the hill. And
23 (INAUDIBLE) parking in the driveway or something
24 like that.
25 LOU SMIT: No one was in charge of (INAUDIBLE)?

0382
1 JOHN RAMSEY: It was just parked.
2 LOU SMIT: Any other garage door opener
3 In his car?
4 JOHN RAMSEY: I believe so.
5 LOU SMIT: Any of his friends have access
6 to his car that you remember?
7 JOHN RAMSEY: Not that I aware of. I
8 wouldn't be surprised if they did. But I don't
9 know anything, no.
10 LOU SMIT: I Just have one more question.
11 And it was just a follow up question. You said
12 that when you took JonBenet on Christmas evening,
13 you had her in your arms and went inside the
14 garage door. And then who closed that garage door?
15 JOHN RAMSEY: I don't remember.
16 LOU SMIT: Or was it closed?
17 JOHN RAMSEY: I can't say for sure that it
18 was. I don't know. We had had other occasions
19 where we just forgot to close it. And most likely
20 Patsy closed it.
21 MIKE KANE: Did you talk her with her
22 about that (INAUDIBLE)?
23 JOHN RAMSEY: Yeah. No we didn't. So I don't
24 actually know. Although I think I would have. I
25 don't remember if I ever looked that morning in

0383
1 the garage. I might have. I don't remember closing
2 it.
3 LOU SMIT: When you went out the next morning,
4 was it closed or open?
5 JOHN RAMSEY: I think I would have noticed
6 if it was opened. I didn't go around back to see
7 it, when I went to check that little side door.
8 But I think I would have noticed if it was open.
9 But it looks like it was closed.
10 LOU SMIT: If you're up in your bedroom,
11 can you hear the garage door going up and down?
12 JOHN RAMSEY: I think you can, yeah. I
13 think so.
14 LOU SMIT: Did you hear the garage door
15 going up or down?
16 JOHN RAMSEY: No. I didn't.
17 MIKE KANE: (INAUDIBLE) yesterday, you
18 said what was on in the inside. Where on the
19 inside?
20 JOHN RAMSEY: Well, it was right there.
21 MIKE KANE: Right inside the door?
22 JOHN RAMSEY: Right.
23 MIKE KANE: To the left as you walked through
24 the door?
25 JOHN RAMSEY: Yeah.

(SNIP)

0503
18 LOU SMIT: Tell me the
19 circumstances surrounding that?
20 JOHN RAMSEY: Linda Arndt when
21 we found the note and she said look, as a matter
22 of routine, I need samples of your handwriting
23 and Patsy's, just routine, I said I understand.
24 So I grabbed a note pad that had some of Patsy's
25 grocery lists or something on it, and I said

0504
1 this is Patsy's handwriting and they grabbed a
2 pad I had taken some notes on from a seminar and
3 it was on the bar and I said this is my
4 handwriting.
5 LOU SMIT: Where, do you remember?
6 JOHN RAMSEY: This bar.
7 LOU SMIT: And where was
8 Patsy's?
9 JOHN RAMSEY: Patsy's was on
10 this table here.
11 MIKE KANE: Okay.
12 VOICE: John, would you point to
13 the bar again?
14 JOHN RAMSEY: This is the back
15 hall in the garage, this little sink bar that I
16 had, the sink was right there. Pad that I
17 picked up.
18 LOU SMIT: Was on that table?
19 JOHN RAMSEY: Was on that
20 table.
21 LOU SMIT: Okay.
22 JOHN RAMSEY: I just gave
23 them the whole pad. I said this is
24 Patsy's handwriting, this is mine.

(SNIP)

0566
12 MIKE KANE: All right. The, I know
13 there was an alarm in the house, was it in that
14 house before you moved in, did you have it
15 installed?
16 JOHN RAMSEY: No, it was in. When
17 we moved in. Obviously we had it updated and we
18 furnished the house but --
19 MIKE KANE: What was do done to it
20 to update it?
21 JOHN RAMSEY: Oh, I think there
22 were some garage, I think the garage door was
23 reworked a bit. In back of the garage we had a
24 thing to the -- see, there was a door to the
25 garage right there, this used to just be a

0567
1 closet, so we made an entry, that door out,
2 those kind of little adjustments, but changed
3 the window or the door, but that was it.

(SNIP)

0774
22 LOU SMIT: That goes out the south
23 door, right? There are some items located in
24 the right of that picture. Could you tell me
25 what that is?

0775
1 JOHN RAMSEY: Well, it look like a
2 paper sack. Something black and red, but I
3 don't know what it is.
4 LOU SMIT: Would that have been
5 something that you were packing for Charlevoix
6 or would that -- does that look --
7 JOHN RAMSEY: It's -- we wouldn't
8 normally pack in a paper bag. Sort of gifts or
9 something. I took most of the gifts up,
10 prepacked them. That's a funny place to have
11 left them if those were for Charlevoix. If they
12 left them anywhere, they would be left at the
13 door going to the garage.

(SNIP)

0778
4 JOHN RAMSEY: I am not sure what
5 this is in the garage door in 86. Smudges on
6 it.
7 LOU SMIT: It's possible it's a
8 fingerprint.
9 (MULTIPLE SPEAKERS.)

(SNIP)

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