June 1998 John Ramsey Interrogation by Lou Smit and Mike Kane (Ransom Note Pad)

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13 LOU SMIT: If I might just 14 touch on a couple of other things. When 15 you, the police officers at one time asked 16 you for a note pad. 17 JOHN RAMSEY: Uh-hum. 18 LOU SMIT: Tell me the 19 circumstances surrounding that? 20 JOHN RAMSEY: Linda Arndt when 21 we found the note and she said look, as a matter 22 of routine, I need samples of your handwriting 23 and Patsy's, just routine, I said I understand. 24 So I grabbed a note pad that had some of Patsy's 25 grocery lists or something on it, and I said 0504 1 this is Patsy's handwriting and they grabbed a 2 pad I had taken some notes on from a seminar and 3 it was on the bar and I said this is my 4 handwriting. 5 LOU SMIT: Where, do you remember? 6 JOHN RAMSEY: This bar. 7 LOU SMIT: And where was 8 Patsy's? 9 JOHN RAMSEY: Patsy's was on 10 this table here. 11 MIKE KANE: Okay. 12 VOICE: John, would you point to 13 the bar again? 14 JOHN RAMSEY: This is the back 15 hall in the garage, this little sink bar that I 16 had, the sink was right there. Pad that I 17 picked up. 18 LOU SMIT: Was on that table? 19 JOHN RAMSEY: Was on that 20 table. 21 LOU SMIT: Okay. 22 JOHN RAMSEY: I just gave 23 them the whole pad. I said this is 24 Patsy's handwriting, this is mine. 25 LOU SMIT: Okay. Now, I am 0505 1 going to show you two photographs; that's 2 number 52 and number 645, that shows that 3 particular area. And I will show that for 4 the camera. Can you pick that up? And 5 these were taken again during the 6 kidnapping phase of the investigation. 7 Now, if you will just take, first of all, 8 52 and tell me what you see there? 9 JOHN RAMSEY: Well, it's the back 10 hall. There is a couple of things over here by 11 the stairway that would have been put there to 12 take downstairs for storage. There's a plastic 13 bag. 14 LOU SMIT: Do you know what's 15 in that bag? 16 JOHN RAMSEY: Not for sure. 17 LOU SMIT: Do you know why 18 it's there? 19 JOHN RAMSEY: Not for sure. No. 20 It don't -- it doesn't (INAUDIBLE). 21 LOU SMIT: Did here Patsy say 22 where she got the note from? 23 JOHN RAMSEY: She said it was on 24 one of the steps, I think the third step or the 25 second step of this spiral staircase. 0506 1 LOU SMIT: Did she say how 2 she first observed that, what caught her 3 attention? 4 JOHN RAMSEY: Just that it was 5 laying this, she came down the steps, and she 6 said at first she thought it was a note from the 7 cleaning lady, because it kind of looked like 8 her handwriting, just didn't put much account to 9 it. I mean, what is somewhat meaningful is that 10 that's -- 95 percent of the time we came up and 11 down that stairway. 12 LOU SMIT: You used it all 13 the time? 14 JOHN RAMSEY: All the time. 15 MIKE KANE: And would people know 16 you used it? Seems like if you put something 17 there people would know? 18 JOHN RAMSEY: Right. 19 LOU SMIT: Who would know that? 20 JOHN RAMSEY: I wish I knew. I 21 mean, that's one of the things that perplexed 22 us, why not the front stairway, which you know, 23 you might -- you could very logically say I 24 come down that way. 25 LOU SMIT: Why not on the 0507 1 bed, on her bed? 2 JOHN RAMSEY: I don't know. 3 LOU SMIT: Who would know 4 that you would use it? I mean, this may 5 be a clue and that's why -- 6 JOHN RAMSEY: I think, and Patsy 7 and I have talked about that, that somebody must 8 have known that we use that stairway all the 9 time. I don't know if a cleaning lady ever left 10 notes there for her, for example. 11 LOU SMIT: Did anyone else 12 ever leave notes? Have you ever had a 13 note or had anything left there? 14 JOHN RAMSEY: Not that I remember. 15 I mean if I left Patsy a note I usually leave it 16 on the kitchen counter. You always go to the 17 kitchen first. When we came back. If I left 18 her a note, she was gone somewhere, she would 19 always come back to the kitchen first, so that's 20 where I leave notes. I mean, yeah, I think 21 that's pretty significant. 22 LOU SMIT: Now what table 23 did you get Patsy's pad from? 24 JOHN RAMSEY: I am pretty sure it 25 was this table. I don't know if that's it or it 0508 1 doesn't quite look like in this picture, but I 2 think it was laying on this table. The only 3 other place it could have been, but I swear I 4 picked it up off this table, would have been the 5 telephone table right here. 6 LOU SMIT: Do you 7 remember -- 8 JOHN RAMSEY: Not with a 9 hundred percent certainty, but I would, my 10 recollection is that I picked it up off of 11 this table. 12 LOU SMIT: Just one more 13 question. I have got a photograph here 14 called 17.7. Somehow this is in your roll 15 of pictures or someone's roll of pictures 16 from before, okay, and it shows, first of 17 all, put it to the camera so they can see 18 that. And I am going to show you that. 19 JOHN RAMSEY: Yeah. 20 LOU SMIT: Do you know who 21 would have taken that photograph? 22 JOHN RAMSEY: It's remotely 23 possible that I was having trouble with my 24 camera, I think, and I don't remember doing 25 this, but I can remember just clicking the 0509 1 camera, trying to see if it worked. 2 LOU SMIT: When was that? 3 JOHN RAMSEY: I mean, I don't 4 know. I mean it was, you know, the only time we 5 got the cameras out were typically at Christmas 6 time. But this looks like the pad frankly that 7 I gave her. 8 LOU SMIT: Does that look 9 like the spot where you would -- that you 10 picked it up from? 11 JOHN RAMSEY: Yes, my 12 recollection, yeah. 13 LOU SMIT: So that could be 14 the actual pad of a picture taken prior to 15 what happened? 16 JOHN RAMSEY: That's possible. 17 LOU SMIT: What else do you 18 notice? 19 JOHN RAMSEY: Well, this bag is 20 still there, the school bag in the corner. The 21 toy is still roughly where it was. There is a, 22 I think that was a Santa Claus or something that 23 was -- 24 LOU SMIT: Santa Claus suit? 25 JOHN RAMSEY: Suit, yeah, or 0510 1 something, likes look. I don't remember what it 2 was. But that's there. Looks like it's still 3 in this picture. This red present is still 4 there. Day-Timer is not there in this picture. 5 LOU SMIT: What? 6 JOHN RAMSEY: The Day-Timer 7 doesn't look like it's there in this picture. 8 LOU SMIT: In the picture 9 taken prior, the Day-Timer is not there? 10 JOHN RAMSEY: Right. I think that 11 is -- I think that is my Day-Timer, but I am 12 not sure. I had one that was similar, black. 13 LOU SMIT: You notice the 14 bags that are in this picture dated prior, 15 the prior one, the bags, the plastic bags, 16 does it appear as they have been moved to 17 you? 18 JOHN RAMSEY: Uh-hum. 19 Definitely. 20 LOU SMIT: Do you know why 21 they would have been moved? 22 JOHN RAMSEY: I don't know what's 23 in there. I mean it -- there is something else 24 of course here on the floor, looks like a 25 stocking or something, Christmas stocking. But 0511 1 no, I don't. I mean I can't -- sometimes when 2 we bag up clothes that we were going to give 3 away, you know, that might have been what that 4 was. 5 LOU SMIT: That's kind of 6 coincidental, isn't it, to have a 7 picture -- 8 JOHN RAMSEY: Yeah, it is. 9 You think this came off my camera or 10 you're not sure? 11 MIKE KANE: I am pretty sure it 12 came off your camera. 13 JOHN RAMSEY: They asked if we had 14 any pictures of the Christmas party and I 15 literally -- well, it's possible, because we 16 had an unusual, an uncompleted roll of film in 17 the camera and I think I clicked off some 18 pictures fairly quickly just to finish up the 19 roll, handed it to the policeman, one of the 20 uniform fellows that was there, and they took it 21 to get developed. 22 LOU SMIT: Okay. So this 23 picture here with the pad -- 24 JOHN RAMSEY: Could have 25 been when I was just burning up pictures. 0512 1 LOU SMIT: At the scene? 2 JOHN RAMSEY: Right. 3 LOU SMIT: That morning? 4 JOHN RAMSEY: Right. 5 LOU SMIT: So it could have been 6 taken just shortly before? 7 JOHN RAMSEY: Right, it's 8 possible. That I think I remember they wanted 9 pictures of the party and I said yeah, we got 10 'em, there was wasn't complete. 11 LOU SMIT: So then that would 12 show the pad in its spot that morning? 13 JOHN RAMSEY: Right. 14 LOU SMIT: Prior to you giving it 15 to the police officer? 16 JOHN RAMSEY: Right. 17 LOU SMIT: That explains that then. 18 BRYAN MORGAN: If that's what -- 19 (MULTIPLE SPEAKERS). 20 BRYAN MORGAN: I think when did you 21 do that? 22 JOHN RAMSEY: Pretty early on. 23 I mean, I think we very early on were concerned 24 about the cleaning lady and the fact that she, 25 you know, asked to borrow money and called Patsy 0513 1 all upset and had a big fight with her sister 2 the day before. I mean this was just kind of 3 like coming out, I didn't know about it, and you 4 know, Officer French was there, we very quickly 5 focused on the cleaning lady. I think they had 6 a wire tap put in place, they got hold of the 7 police in wherever she lives, Lafayette or 8 something like that, and they got involved. 9 So I think they wanted pictures of 10 the party because I think she was -- she was at 11 that 23rd party. Is I think the reason why they 12 wanted that roll of film. As well as they had 13 pictures of JonBenet on it. I don't remember if 14 that was the reason or not, but... 15 LOU SMIT: So then when this 16 photograph was taken you think you clicked 17 some off? 18 JOHN RAMSEY: Uh-hum. 19 LOU SMIT: That's why it 20 shows the pad there and then later you 21 gave the pad to the officer? 22 JOHN RAMSEY: Right. 23 LOU SMIT: Now it's a short time 24 later then that these photographs are taken and 25 trying to figure out why they would have moved 0514 1 the bag? 2 JOHN RAMSEY: Well, there is 3 something else laying there too. 4 LOU SMIT: So that's a 5 question we have to answer. 6 JOHN RAMSEY: Yeah, I don't know. 7 There is no reason I would have moved it. 8 LOU SMIT: So that wouldn't 9 have been three days prior that this thing 10 was taken, but it could have just been 11 taken hours prior-- 12 JOHN RAMSEY: It could have been 13 that morning. Yeah, it could have been. 14 BRYAN MORGAN: Could I see the 15 photograph? Lou, is there any way to tell where 16 in the sequence of the roll it was taken? 17 LOU SMIT: On the roll of John -- 18 I am sure there is. I am sure the negatives 19 would be available. 20 VOICE: (INAUDIBLE). 21 LOU SMIT: That would show what 22 number, that's absolutely true. Now if you 23 remember doing that? 24 JOHN RAMSEY: I do, I think I did 25 it, because I had to finish the roll up to get 0515 1 it out of the camera. 2 LOU SMIT: Makes sense. 3 JOHN RAMSEY: Because it was 4 one of those electric rewinds and all that. 5 MIKE KANE: What kind of camera 6 was it? 7 JOHN RAMSEY: I -- it's a -- 8 well, I am stretching if I try and remember. We 9 got a new camera, but I think that was after -- 10 after that. 11 VOICE: But it had an auto winder? 12 JOHN RAMSEY: Yes, I am pretty 13 sure it did. Yeah, I am sure it rewound or -- 14 it was one of those cartridge (INAUDIBLE). ---

June 1998 John Ramsey Interrogation by Lou Smit and Mike Kane (Ransom Note Pad)

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