2003-05-08: Webbsleuths Forum (http://www.webbsleuths.com)
"Patsy and rope"

why_nut
unregistered user
May-08-03, 04:26 PM (EST)

"Patsy and rope"

From the NE transcripts, page 245-246:
Patsy was shown a photo of rope found in John Andrew's bedroom:

PR: I don't recognize it, specifically.
TD: Okay.
TH: Okay. And that, that particular piece of rope, do you ever remember seeing anything like it around? And if you look at photo 115, you notice the...ends are unusually secured...can you think of any reason to have that kind of rope around?

(Comment: Haney has just asked Patsy if she has seen the kind of rope, which is either hemp or sisal or some other kind of brown fibrous rope. He is not confining the discussion to the ends of the rope; subsequent questions are about the entirety of the rope as well as about the ends.)

PR: I've just never seen ends like that, done like that. John had some, you know, boat ropes and things up at the lake, but it seems like when they cut those, they kind of melt the ends of them or something to keep them from fraying or something. I've never seen one done like that.

TH: The kind of ropes you're talking about that John used up there--
PR: For the sailboat or--
TH: Are they colored the same or similar?
PR: Well, some of them have like little blue flecks in them or red, or there's some white ones, you know.
TH: Okay. Do you know what, what those are composed of? Is it a nylon-like that melts?
PR: Yeah, it must, something that melts, yeah. But it seems to me like they somehow torch the ends and kind of keep them from fraying. I can't remember seeing any one looking like that.

(Comment: Haney now goes back to the subject of the rope in general, and is not asking about the ends.)

TH: You don't remember that being used anywhere in the house or yard or--
PR: No.
TH: Would you think that unusual to be found in the house?
PR: Yeah. I mean, Burke had some ropes that he would play with through something out on the playground, you know, in that, in that picture yesterday the rope around the, the fort, you know, or something.
TH: Right.

(Comment: Patsy has now followed Haney in his line of questioning. The subject is, indeed, no longer about the ends, but the kind of rope in general.)

PR: Always trying to make a boat or something like that.
TH: This was found inside the house.
PR: Inside the house?
TH: In John Andrew's room?
PR: Oh. Maybe it was a, some rope he used for camping or something, I don't know.
TD: Did he have rope in his room that he would use for camping?
PR: ... I don't know. I just don't remember seeing this specifically, and I don't remember ever seeing a rope like that.

Patsy does not remember ever seeing a rope like the one in John Andrew's room? There is proof she had. Look at this photo from the book JONBENET'S MOTHER. It shows such rope appearing within a set decoration she arranged while she was volunteering at High Peaks school, where Burke was attending.

The circled area to the left shows the rope. See the dummies in the photo, resembling scarecrows somewhat? There are three in the photo. One is wearing a plaid shirt, a small part of which can be seen under Patsy's left arm.

That same scarecrow was taken home and stored in the Ramsey basement. Look at this picture. Do you see it?

That scarecrow has, as one might have expected of a scarecrow, a rope belt. And that rope belt does, despite Patsy's protestations to the contrary, resemble the rope found in John Andrew's room. So Patsy did see "a rope like that," despite her testimony to the contrary. She owned "rope like that."

And in an intruder scenario, can someone explain to me why the intruder made absolutely no use of that rope at all, despite its easy availability right there where JonBenet died? If one wanted to incriminate the parents, there is no sense in using cord that was brought, if the victim's own house provided a potentially very scary (and much more photogenic, in keeping with the movie theme) means of binding JonBenet's wrists in a way we are all much more familiar with.

If, on the other hand, a parent was guilty, the lack of rope-belt use is understandable, because when a person lives in a house, it is easy to forget that materials one owns are right in front of one's own eyes, because those materials are seen every day. An intruder does not have the luxury of not noticing materials that can be exploited for control. A house inhabitant, on the other hand, cannot force herself or himself to notice things that came to be ignored long ago.

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jameson
Charter Member
10170 posts May-08-03, 04:35 PM (EST)

1. "RE: Patsy and rope"
In response to message #0

Well, I am impressed!

I honestly had not seen that before.

I wonder where the decoration is and if the rope has been compared to the one found in John Andrew's room.

Questions:

1. Is the rope the same - - there are many kinds of brown rope - are they a match?

2. IF it is a match, who made that decoration? Was it Patsy or was it a group and did Patsy just end up with the dummy when they were cleaning up?

3. IF it is a match, if Patsy made that decoration, I would think that the new investigators would want to review that with the Ramseys - - where did she get the rope, how much did she get of it and where is the rest? Who had access to it?

Very interesting - - and certainly new to me.

Thanks for sharing.

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why_nut
unregistered user
May-08-03, 05:53 PM (EST)

"4. "DonBradley"
In response to message #3

I recall seeing images of the rope from JAR's room and it is a very stout, sturdy rope such as might be employed in towing a car or boat or tying something down outside in a high wind. The 'household ropes' appear to be closer to decorative than functional, they are thinner and far more pliable."

The perspective your memory places on the rope from John Andrew's room is skewed by the fact that that photo was a closeup, and your mental comparison becomes of rope of X visual width versus rope of Y visual width, without compensation for the change in distance. The rope in JAR's room was very pliable itself. The photo of it shows that it can be bent into loops of just such an arc as you can see the rope belt drooping into. And note the ruler next to the JAR rope; it is in centimeter increments, a measurement near enough for discussion to half an inch to show that the bedroom rope was likely common half-inch rope, visually comparable to the belt rope, which is also near enough to half an inch (for comparison, look at how the belt rope is slightly larger than the shafts of the nearby golf clubs).

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why_nut
unregistered user
May-13-03, 12:47 PM (EST)

"44. "DonBradley"
In response to message #43

I would think that from a time-management/cost perspective, it is unlikely that the scarecrow or any of its accessory items was hand crafted by Patsy Ramsey. It is undoubtedly a store-bought item and therefore it has no 'implication' about Patsy's knowledge at all."

I think Susan Stine disagrees with you. JONBENET'S MOTHER, page 104:

"One year, the school decided to have a family party based on a western theme. This was to be not only a fund-raiser, but also was to build community spirit. Patsy took on a major responsibility, wanting to make something really special for the children. Patsy invited Burke's class and their parents to her home to make preparations. This included painting scenery and making props. What a wonderful, memorable (and messy!) afternoon. One of Patsy's biggest talents is her organization. She had all of the materials ready for the day--paint and cardboard and fabric and ribbon, etc. And she didn't just supervise. She pitched in and did the hard work--painting, cutting, glueing and anything else that needed to be done."

This would be an issue that Jameson could clear up directly and personally. Given her friendly contact with Susan Stine (if not entirely with Patsy anymore), it would take Jameson no more than a phone call today to ask Susan if Patsy made the prop and provided the rope for the belt, and if not, who did.

I hope people will note, though that I raised the issue not to question whether the rope on the scarecrow's belt was an extension piece from the rope in John Andrew's bedroom. The issue was that I believe Patsy can be proven to have lied, or at attempted to lie, when she said in her interview with authorities that she had not seen rope "like" the one in JAR's bedroom around the house. She had to have seen rope "like it." There is rope "like it" on the scarecrow. And the Court TV program JONBENET: A SECOND LOOK was even more revelatory. This never-previously-broadcast photo shows, indeed, more rope "like it" in the house. Where was this rope located? On a shelf below the basement bathroom window. And one again the question must be asked: if there was so much ligature material to be found in the basement, why was none of it used by the intruder on JonBenet, if the goals were both to implicate the parents and to, as you so often say, have fun? A harsh, thick piece of rope is far more frightening to contemplate around one's daughter's neck than a thin ligature which did so little damage that not one drop of blood from crushed tissues was found below her throat's external skin.