June 1998 John Ramsey Interrogation by Lou Smit and Mike Kane (Tom Carson)

0739
17 LOU SMIT: Okay. How about people
18 that occupied offices real close to you, there.
19 I know there was a couple that had offices --
20 JOHN RAMSEY: Yes, that was next,
21 Ross Churchill was -- no, Don Paugh was on one
22 side and Tom Carson was on the other. Tom was
23 our chief financial officer, he was there when I
24 got there and kind of took care of him. We had
25 an awkward business relationship, just I never

0740
1 felt comfortable, I didn't trust him, which is
2 absolutely terrible to have a CFO you don't
3 trust. He -- I was, he was always a struggle
4 for me to deal with. I just didn't like the
5 guy.
6 LOU SMIT: Was it a two-way street?
7 JOHN RAMSEY: Oh, probably to some
8 degree, I don't think he -- Tom might think --
9 at least for a while I think my impression, he
10 always thought he should have had my job instead
11 of me. And some people you're around, in your
12 work environment that when you're around them it
13 pumps you up and it's a positive thing and
14 others it's just always a drain. He was just
15 always a drain for me.
16 LOU SMIT: Do you think he could
17 have any reason to do this? I know we are
18 speculating, I know it's hard to say.
19 JOHN RAMSEY: Yeah. I mean I
20 thought about it, quite frankly. I mean I
21 thought about everybody. You know, we were
22 looking at, at that time, a, was it a sale of
23 the business? Yes, there was -- Lockheed had
24 made it kind of known, they -- we weren't
25 strategic to them and they were divesting some

0741
1 of their nonstrategic businesses and we were one
2 of those and they were open to offers and so
3 that was going on. Tom certainly would have
4 been the loser had we been acquired by another
5 company. We were being looked at by Endicom
6 (phonetic), which a company in Omaha, that was a
7 fairly serious or getting fairly serious
8 (INAUDIBLE) value of the company and that's how
9 bizarre my thoughts have gotten.

June 1998 John Ramsey Interrogation by Lou Smit and Mike Kane (Tom Carson)

0741
10 LOU SMIT: What's the name of the
11 company?
12 JOHN RAMSEY: Endicom.
13 LOU SMIT: Endicom.
14 LOU SMIT: Any particular name
15 associate?
16 JOHN RAMSEY: Well, Bill Fairfield
17 is the president. It's a public company, you
18 know, your mind is just reaching. And you know,
19 if I was -- think they should have just killed
20 me, that would have been it. Better way to do
21 it, then the company wouldn't have been
22 devalued, but Tom would have lost in that
23 because clearly they would have put their own
24 CFO in charge of the whole thing and he would
25 have been out, probably.

0742
1 He was always anxious to get us out
2 from under Lockheed but do it in such a way that
3 he could make a lot of money at it. Tom's
4 agenda ways his own agenda, that was one of the
5 problems with the trust issue.
6 He had two daughters. He was
7 divorced. The only people he dated were people
8 in the office, which was always a problem. My
9 former secretary almost filed a sexual
10 harassment suit on him. He just, he was kind of
11 an awkward, socially, guy. But he came to the
12 memorial, he came to the funeral in Atlanta.
13 It's almost inconceivable to think he could be
14 involved. In fact, he was on one side.
15 LOU SMIT: What, would he have
16 known you were leaving?
17 JOHN RAMSEY: Quite possibly. We
18 talked a lot so it wouldn't have been -- he
19 probably more than anybody on my staff would
20 have, other than Denise would have known my
21 schedule, because, though Denise certainly would
22 have known my schedule, it would have been on
23 her desk. She kept a calendar. If somebody
24 wanted to know they could have gone to the
25 calendar.